City Courses?

[alex511]

Why do you think there are no city courses over lifetime of GT Sport and until launch of GT7 included anymore? Today I saw a vid of Seattle circuit in GT4, so much fun in jumping over the streets, as what Codemasters later did with Race Driver Grid.
Of course it could later included as update in GT7, certainly not as the highest track-priority, but there have to be surely a reason why no single course anymore in game. I can’t that really understand. It definitely belongs to history of gran Turismo, I want to say there is Tokyo expressway in GT Sport, so why no course in city.

 

[Supaboost]

Guessing development difficulty and resource allocation ineptitude.

 

[XSquareStickIt]

I'm guessing they won't make for good locations to hold sanctioned races at. A lot of people whinge about Tokyo and avoid racing there when it pops up in dailies and FIA, citing DR and SR suicide. I don't blame them.

But, I think the bigger reason is that the graphical standard for the PS4 and beyond have made it too time and resource intensive to include real life city tracks. The time it would take to scan and model each trackside building and tree for example, would be insane with the leap in graphical fidelity from PS2 to PS4 (Seattle last appeared in PS2 and PSP).

I love city tracks. Big fan of London, R246, and of course Seattle. I would pay absurd amounts of money to have the current graphical fidelity and photo mode on playable, actual locations. Many have argued even before GT7's launch that the track list has gotten stale, and I think the laser focus on sanitised, wide open, smoothly paved racetracks are to blame for that feeling of staleness.

 

[alex511]

I'm guessing they won't make for good locations to hold sanctioned races at. A lot of people whinge about Tokyo and avoid racing there when it pops up in dailies and FIA, citing DR and SR suicide. I don't blame them.

But, I think the bigger reason is that the graphical standard for the PS4 and beyond have made it too time and resource intensive to include real life city tracks. The time it would take to scan and model each trackside building and tree for example, would be insane with the leap in graphical fidelity from PS2 to PS4 (Seattle last appeared in PS2 and PSP).

I love city tracks. Big fan of London, R246, and of course Seattle. I would pay absurd amounts of money to have the current graphical fidelity and photo mode on playable, actual locations. Many have argued even before GT7's launch that the track list has gotten stale, and I think the laser focus on sanitised, wide open, smoothly paved racetracks are to blame for that feeling of staleness.

But look at T10, they could implement city courses in last console generation Motorsport-games like prag with a modern resolution, so why not Polyphony, everything a bit weird with them.

 

[GT_brickhole]

Why do you think there are no city courses over lifetime of GT Sport and until launch of GT7 included anymore? Today I saw a vid of Seattle circuit in GT4, so much fun in jumping over the streets, as what Codemasters later did with Race Driver Grid.
Of course it could later included as update in GT7, certainly not as the highest track-priority, but there have to be surely a reason why no single course anymore in game. I can’t that really understand. It definitely belongs to history of gran Turismo, I want to say there is Tokyo expressway in GT Sport, so why no course in city.

tokyo express? i guess its more highway than city/street... but has the feel....

 

[easygtsport11]

I still mourn Tokyo R246.

 

[ebadevil]

I'm guessing it has more to do with that this game still runs on PS4 and that's the limiting factor. I think they wanted the game to be more or less "equal" on both PS 4 and 5 and I think the old hardware is holding that back. I think if GT7 was PS5 only we would see city courses. But I just don't think they have the hardware power on the PS4 to dedicate to city sceneries.

 

[chengman]

I'm guessing it has more to do with that this game still runs on PS4 and that's the limiting factor. I think they wanted the game to be more or less "equal" on both PS 4 and 5 and I think the old hardware is holding that back. I think if GT7 was PS5 only we would see city courses. But I just don't think they have the hardware power on the PS4 to dedicate to city sceneries.

What the heck is it with Polyphony and always neutering their games?

 

[TSTO]

I'm guessing it has more to do with that this game still runs on PS4 and that's the limiting factor. I think they wanted the game to be more or less "equal" on both PS 4 and 5 and I think the old hardware is holding that back. I think if GT7 was PS5 only we would see city courses. But I just don't think they have the hardware power on the PS4 to dedicate to city sceneries.

I agree with this. I'm happy the game gets to touch more hands due to it being accessible on PS4, but at the same time, cross-gen titles tend to suffer from being bottlenecked by the previous generation. This has been the case for years.
It also stands to reason that they began work on this game for PS4 alongside GT Sport and then spent a certain amount of time upgrading some parts of it for PS5 consumers, rather than the reverse. Sony must've also put the pressure on them to make sure it does seem like a mostly identical experience between both generations. The cars' detail level in this franchise since GTSport has gotten to a level that is unlike any other franchise out there, in regards to the cars themselves only. That alone takes a toll on an inferior platform, hence the bottleneck. Kaz is very concerned with keeping the steady 60FPS gameplay (and rightfully so, it's a technical precision based racing game). Putting more stress on the PS4 platform by making the environment have higher detail such as a city track would've probably caused for some frame rate drop on PS4. It's kinda nuts if you think about it. PS5 has almost 10x the TFLOPs computing power than a basic model PS4 (10.28 vs. 1.7) and the game is required to run smoothly on that giant range. It is certainly limiting and disappointing but logical.

GT8 will likely be a PS5 only or PS5 + PS6 game, but the limitations at that point will be negligible due to the starting point in this gen being a much better one than last gen's less-than-middle-of-the-road CPUs.

 

[GT_brickhole]

I agree with this. I'm happy the game gets to touch more hands due to it being accessible on PS4, but at the same time, cross-gen titles tend to suffer from being bottlenecked by the previous generation. This has been the case for years.
It also stands to reason that they began work on this game for PS4 alongside GT Sport and then spent a certain amount of time upgrading some parts of it for PS5 consumers, rather than the reverse. Sony must've also put the pressure on them to make sure it does seem like a mostly identical experience between both generations. The cars' detail level in this franchise since GTSport has gotten to a level that is unlike any other franchise out there, in regards to the cars themselves only. That alone takes a toll on an inferior platform, hence the bottleneck. Kaz is very concerned with keeping the steady 60FPS gameplay (and rightfully so, it's a technical precision based racing game). Putting more stress on the PS4 platform by making the environment have higher detail such as a city track would've probably caused for some frame rate drop on PS4. It's kinda nuts if you think about it. PS5 has almost 10x the TFLOPs computing power than a basic model PS4 (10.28 vs. 1.7) and the game is required to run smoothly on that giant range. It is certainly limiting and disappointing but logical.

GT8 will likely be a PS5 only or PS5 + PS6 game, but the limitations at that point will be negligible due to the starting point in this gen being a much better one than last gen's less-than-middle-of-the-road CPUs.

do you think any future updates might help gt7 utilize more ps5 performance as we slowly migrate to that console?

 

[TSTO]

do you think any future updates might help gt7 utilize more ps5 performance as we slowly migrate to that console?

It would be a welcome change to be sure. But I doubt they'd do that much of any graphical upgrading or effect tweaking in fear of causing any backlash in the community from last-gen players who even when presented an opportunity to purchase a PS5 in stock and have the means to, choose not to due to their feelings that they don't "need to". (I've seen this mentioned in many places including some people I know saying the same thing). Last thing PD wants now is more negative publicity. Even though if done right, it wouldn't affect these players, only improve the experience for those who did engage in getting a PS5.

 

[XSquareStickIt]

But look at T10, they could implement city courses in last console generation Motorsport-games like prag with a modern resolution, so why not Polyphony, everything a bit weird with them.

You're right. I have no idea. I was only speculating.

 

[R55NA]

Nothing I hate more in a racing game, than a fictional city track. Dreadful things.

Codemasters cannot help themselves. Let's have an LMP1 or GT3/GTE car drift around a fake street circuit, everyone loves it!

 

[SkylineObsession]

I think it could be because GT has become too online/multiplayer focussed (making sure each track can cope with 20 cars) and have forgotten about those of us who like tighter more challenging tracks. Narrow, twisting and tight turned city courses likely won't work as well online, so PD exclude them.

I really hope i'm wrong, as city courses have been an awesome addition to GT games since Rome and Seattle in GT2, and it feels wrong not having them in Sport and 7.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I really enjoyed the city courses in GT4, GT5 and GT6. They need to return because they're great way to showcase the cities of the world. Google Earth is good and all but driving on real streets in a video game is soo much more fun.

 

[Uday9479]

I so miss tracks from GT4 like Seattle, Hong Kong & New York. These weren't too technical but were fun knowing You're in a race that's lined through a world-famous city.

 

[B80]

I'm guessing they won't make for good locations to hold sanctioned races at. A lot of people whinge about Tokyo and avoid racing there when it pops up in dailies and FIA, citing DR and SR suicide. I don't blame them.

But, I think the bigger reason is that the graphical standard for the PS4 and beyond have made it too time and resource intensive to include real life city tracks. The time it would take to scan and model each trackside building and tree for example, would be insane with the leap in graphical fidelity from PS2 to PS4 (Seattle last appeared in PS2 and PSP).

I love city tracks. Big fan of London, R246, and of course Seattle. I would pay absurd amounts of money to have the current graphical fidelity and photo mode on playable, actual locations. Many have argued even before GT7's launch that the track list has gotten stale, and I think the laser focus on sanitised, wide open, smoothly paved racetracks are to blame for that feeling of staleness.

Yeah think that's why it got such a rush and enjoyment from racing on nordschleife for 1st time 2 days ago. All the bumps, tighter track made the experience feel much more alive imo.was immense.

 

[Brock5000]

I'd love some more short city tracks. One of my favourites was Opera Paris in GT4, it had a nice mix of track surfaces, some good tight back-and-forth turns and a fast, bumpy back straight with a perilous kink.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Isn't it amazing what a bunch of guys in their bedroom could achieve on old software/hardware that PD couldn't?







There's no logical reason for not having lots of city tracks in GTS/GT7. It's not about the lack of raceability, resources or hardware limitation. PD just chose to focus on making Tilkedromes instead (with the exception of Tokyo Expressway obviously).

Anyway, it is what it is. I'd rather these tracks live in memory than being ruined like TM or DF.

 

[Matt atkins]

I agree with this. I'm happy the game gets to touch more hands due to it being accessible on PS4, but at the same time, cross-gen titles tend to suffer from being bottlenecked by the previous generation. This has been the case for years.
It also stands to reason that they began work on this game for PS4 alongside GT Sport and then spent a certain amount of time upgrading some parts of it for PS5 consumers, rather than the reverse. Sony must've also put the pressure on them to make sure it does seem like a mostly identical experience between both generations. The cars' detail level in this franchise since GTSport has gotten to a level that is unlike any other franchise out there, in regards to the cars themselves only. That alone takes a toll on an inferior platform, hence the bottleneck. Kaz is very concerned with keeping the steady 60FPS gameplay (and rightfully so, it's a technical precision based racing game). Putting more stress on the PS4 platform by making the environment have higher detail such as a city track would've probably caused for some frame rate drop on PS4. It's kinda nuts if you think about it. PS5 has almost 10x the TFLOPs computing power than a basic model PS4 (10.28 vs. 1.7) and the game is required to run smoothly on that giant range. It is certainly limiting and disappointing but logical.

GT8 will likely be a PS5 only or PS5 + PS6 game, but the limitations at that point will be negligible due to the starting point in this gen being a much better one than last gen's less-than-middle-of-the-road CPUs.

No it will be on PS4 gran trisomo 8 because you can’t get the new PlayStation 5 for love or money

 

[TSTO]

No it will be on PS4 gran trisomo 8 because you can’t get the new PlayStation 5 for love or money

Based on what we know from PD's track record on releases, it'll be several years, quite possibly 4-6 years maybe more, until we see the next installment. PS5s are not going to be difficult to obtain by then. Supply is going to eventually improve significantly, most likely by end of this year or early-mid 2023.

You won't see many games release on PS4 post 2023, save for maybe the yearly basketball, soccer, football games.

 

[BrunusCL82]

Anyone who claims that the absence of the classic street circuits of the franchise in GTS and GT7 is due to incompatibility with Sport Mode, could not be more mistaken.

There are fictional PD street circuits, but based on real streets and tracks, as wide and suitable for Sport Mode as the Deep Forest is suitable for Sport Mode.

Tokyo R249, Circuito di Roma, New York, Seoul, Paris are fully viable for online racing and competitions, especially with the adaptation of the “ghost car” when there is a collision and in the races of low reputation players.

In my opinion, the absence of circuits is related to the aptitude for the task, considering the current moment of graphic resources! But, from a certain perspective, it's true that the PD's work is slow and fruitless, considering the amount of real circuits (and cities) that Milestone, Kunos Codemasters and Slightly Mad Studios make available in their games.

I don't think it has anything to do with the online vision on the franchise.

I think the ideal thing would be for Sony/PD to hire the people from Milestone, Kunos and SMS, open a PD branch in Europe and outsource to them the task of building tracks and circuits for their games.

But it can also be a matter of priority and game direction. Maybe the PD management is happy with the number of circuits and old race cars. As they abuse graphic perfection, maybe, I don't know, bringing more cars and circuits would make GT7 stay with the size of 200gbs on the PS4/PS5 hard drive. I think they are more focused on Sport Mode, international competitions (e-Sport) and some floff and cosmetics, such as landscapes, rally music and current information.

 

[SkylineObsession]

I'd love some more short city tracks. One of my favourites was Opera Paris in GT4, it had a nice mix of track surfaces, some good tight back-and-forth turns and a fast, bumpy back straight with a perilous kink.

Opera Paris is easily my favourite city course to ever appear in GT. The thing i love about it so much is the camber of the roads, so many other city courses don't account for road camber.

 

[nickg07]

Opera Paris is easily my favourite city course to ever appear in GT. The thing i love about it so much is the camber of the roads, so many other city courses don't account for road camber.

I was just about to post Opera but you already did the job.

 

[pedrocor]

I guess some posts up there summed it up.

First, multiplayer racing in city circuits is a nightmare, all of us who raced Tokyo Expressway daily races in GTS knows it, for sure.
If you look back, Macau is a mess since they run GTs instead of touring cars. Obviously PD doesn't want to invest too much time scanning and designing tracks that would be great mainly in single player mode. Even in single player mode, the way the IA racers behave at this moment, I doubt it would be something as nice as in previous GT games.
Can anyone envision a Daily Race in Cote d'Azur in GT7? What could go wrong?!? 😅

Second, no way PS4 would hold on the graphic processing of a track like Tokyo R246, that isn't just a "tunnel" like Tokyo Expressway but had real 3d buildings around the track, representing real world buildings and other urban infrastructures.

 

[Gabe777]

Why do you think there are no city courses over lifetime of GT Sport and until launch of GT7 included anymore? Today I saw a vid of Seattle circuit in GT4, so much fun in jumping over the streets, as what Codemasters later did with Race Driver Grid.
Of course it could later included as update in GT7, certainly not as the highest track-priority, but there have to be surely a reason why no single course anymore in game. I can’t that really understand. It definitely belongs to history of gran Turismo, I want to say there is Tokyo expressway in GT Sport, so why no course in city.

I agree. Forza 7 and Grid are looking more attractive as each day goes by.

These tracks are dull.

 

[BrunusCL82]

It's time, Polyphony! Off course, in case Kaz and his employees are reading this!

The city circuits are an indispensable component for the identity and, therefore, for success of the franchise.
GT.