Is Gran Turismo Sport Already Dead?

[wheelie_dog]

Pro tip: if you're looking to earn credits fast, I suggest Campaign ---> Professional Series ---> Group 1 Challenge/Cup ---> Monza

Tune any Group 1 car you own to max HP and the lowest weight possible, cruise to victory without touching any other cars (only pass them on the straights, NOT in corners) and you'll make approx. $2 mil credits/hour

 

[DJShadesUK]

That would require months of development work and core changes to the game’s backend systems, most notably how saving progress functions.

Months? Months? Not in this universe, or any other.

Do you think multiple routines of the same code checking server status, saving, retrieving and cross checking the save game data are spread willy-nilly throughout the code, just dumped in again and again where necessary?

No, there will be a set of functions, all relatively close to one another, which will handle that sort of stuff and can be called upon from anywhere in the rest of the code. Grouping code into functions that can be called upon from multiple places and reused not only makes the code smaller but helps to keep code organised. However the real utility of these re-usable functions is that, because all the code for a given purpose is all in one place and re-usable, you're reducing the locations of points of failure (bugs) and, more importantly, if you need to make any changes you only need to do it once.

The point is, all retrieving of data from online and local storage will be handled in one place, so PD's coder(s) can just go to that one function and remove (or comment out) any lines specific to online storage and the cross-checking of online/local data. Similarly for storing data, any references to saving online can be removed (or commented out) with ease. Then it would be a simple matter of permanently hard-coding certain variables to deny access (disable interface items) to certain parts of the game that absolutely rely on being online; so that would be Sport Mode, Lobby, Discover, The livery editor and parts of the Library).

I can assure you, that sort of stuff is absolute childs play, menial, do-it-with-eyes-closed level basics... managing file i/o is probably the third thing most coders learn after "hello world". Setting variables would be the second.

If experienced hackers can take the binary file(s) of a program with copy/security/licencing protections, disassemble it (into Assembler language... which is a million times harder to understand than (normal) human-readable source code) and remove said copy/security/licencing protections in a matter of days of a programs release then I'm fairly certain - no, I'm 100% certain - that PD's coders, with access to their own source code, can comment out a few lines in a matter of hours. Hell, give me the source code, and a dev-box, and I'm sure even I could figure it out within a day or two.

 

[MasterGT]

One more indication that PDI has lost touch with their customers.

 

[Felipesku]

Wait, is saving your progressions in license mode active or you can't even play offline having progress saved?

Seems like a legal problem if so.

 

[ChiefBossMane]

Months? Months? Not in this universe, or any other.

Do you think multiple routines of the same code checking server status, saving, retrieving and cross checking the save game data are spread willy-nilly throughout the code, just dumped in again and again where necessary?

No, there will be a set of functions, all relatively close to one another, which will handle that sort of stuff and can be called upon from anywhere in the rest of the code. Grouping code into functions that can be called upon from multiple places and reused not only makes the code smaller but helps to keep code organised. However the real utility of these re-usable functions is that, because all the code for a given purpose is all in one place and re-usable, you're reducing the locations of points of failure (bugs) and, more importantly, if you need to make any changes you only need to do it once.

The point is, all retrieving of data from online and local storage will be handled in one place, so PD's coder(s) can just go to that one function and remove (or comment out) any lines specific to online storage and the cross-checking of online/local data. Similarly for storing data, any references to saving online can be removed (or commented out) with ease. Then it would be a simple matter of permanently hard-coding certain variables to deny access (disable interface items) to certain parts of the game that absolutely rely on being online; so that would be Sport Mode, Lobby, Discover, The livery editor and parts of the Library).

I can assure you, that sort of stuff is absolute childs play, menial, do-it-with-eyes-closed level basics... managing file i/o is probably the third thing most coders learn after "hello world". Setting variables would be the second.

If experienced hackers can take the binary file(s) of a program with copy/security/licencing protections, disassemble it (into Assembler language... which is a million times harder to understand than (normal) human-readable source code) and remove said copy/security/licencing protections in a matter of days of a programs release then I'm fairly certain - no, I'm 100% certain - that PD's coders, with access to their own source code, can comment out a few lines in a matter of hours. Hell, give me the source code, and a dev-box, and I'm sure even I could figure it out within a day or two.

Get this man a dev-kit. Stat!

 

[Kgffy]

No not dead, we having to
Go back to sport for are league racing because how broken Multiplayer is in GT7

 

[cjr3559]

Not surprised GTS would come to a conclusion so soon, and I’m not shedding a tear over it.

Sealing off GT5 and GT6 in their respective sarcophagi only five months after their successor releases was more painful than seeing Sport disappear. By a long shot.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It's sad to see it go out so quickly, with PD no longer updating the daily races, daily player count has dropped below 10,000.

Stats | Gran Turismo Sport | kudosprime.com

Before GT7 is was steady at avg 33K a day. Weekly sport activity dropped below 40K from over 90K, dropping fast.

With GT7 being split between ps4 and ps5 with a worse online experience, I'm hardly racing online anymore.

A patch to only use the local save should be easy. No doubt there is one function to check and synchronize the local save data with the server. All it needs to be changed into is return true;

 

[RacingFan1]

I don't miss GTS at all because of the lack of tuning parts and the half-baked physics. GT7 is a huge leap forward in general

 

[LeGeNd-1]

They've lengthened the Time Trial update cycle to monthly as well (previously it was 2 weeks). I'm guessing daily races will also be rotated monthly now. It wouldn't take them 15 minutes to set up a new event at previous schedule, but PD being PD, that's too much to ask for It's not like GT7 is inundated with new events either. Daily races are still weekly, and no Time Trials yet.

The saddest thing about taking GTS offline for me, is losing all the amazing photos and liveries the community has built up over the years.

I find this interesting, because it implies that Daily Races were set up by hand. That’s not unusual in and of itself, but I wonder if Polyphony explored automated event generation at any point.

For example, DiRT Rally, DiRT 4 and DiRT Rally 2.0 are no longer actively being worked on by dev teams, yet each gets new events every day thanks to an automated event generator that builds challenges on the fly.

Each of these games did use hand-crafted events up until the end of the post-launch development cycle, and the learnings from those (ie: which events were most popular) would then inform the automated generator on what to make in the future.

You're giving PD way too much credit here. They are a company that always finds the most complicated way to do the simplest things.

It's clear that the online events are updated by hand, and mostly picked from a pool of "ready made" events. It's evident when you see how many dailies, FIA races and TTs have been recycled over the years with the exact same car/track/tyre/fuel settings.

Picked by hand and make creative events? Nope.

Picked automatically and make it simple? Nope.

Picked by hand AND still have lots of repeat events? Yep. That's the PD way.

Even Driveclub kept going with a steady stream of randomly generated events long after Evo Studios got absorbed by your company. But that's just too much for PD.

Apart from the car/track modellers, I have no idea what the rest of PD's workforce is doing honestly. Probably playing Music Rally with Kaz and getting drunk every night.

 

[RacingFan1]

@LeGeNd-1 GTS physics were severely lacking in the braking department, that's what I disliked most about it. It plainly sucked IMO. In GT7 is totally different. Not perfect, but vastly improved.

 

[DamienBlack]

We as a group of 6 friends, moved to iRacing after GTS having no future and GT7 being so disapointing for us.
Last night we had our first 3 hour race at daytona and we absolutly loved it!
Chances of returning to GT (in a competitive way) are probably zero now.
(maybe even taking part @nürburgring 24H race next weekend)

 

[BaareCZ]

Well, new set of "daily" races for next week is up. Looks like GTS is not completely dead but daily races seem to be monthly races now. Not great, not terrible. Definitely better than a poke in the eye. Especially since I haven't bought GT7 yet (gonna wait for a significant price reduction, I'm not paying nearly $100 for what it is now).

 

[LeGeNd-1]

@LeGeNd-1 GTS physics were severely lacking in the braking department, that's what I disliked most about it. It plainly sucked IMO. In GT7 is totally different. Not perfect, but vastly improved.

True braking is much improved in GT7, but anything from the apex onwards is a mess, especially in RWD/4WD road cars. I'd rather take a slightly more unrealistic but consistent physics than having to drive like a grandma everywhere.

Anyway, I do not want to turn this into another 100 page physics discussion thread, so let's leave it there

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Well, new set of "daily" races for next week is up. Looks like GTS is not completely dead but daily races seem to be monthly races now. Not great, not terrible. Definitely better than a poke in the eye. Especially since I haven't bought GT7 yet (gonna wait for a significant price reduction, I'm not paying nearly $100 for what it is now).

Race A Special Stage Route X N600, yawn!
Race B Sardegna A GR.4 4 laps, was fun in GR.3 but no thanks with GR.4
Race C Nurb GP GR.3 10 laps, RM and RS required during race.

That's another whole month skipping GT Sport then.

 

[BaareCZ]

Race A Special Stage Route X N600, yawn!
Race B Sardegna A GR.4 4 laps, was fun in GR.3 but no thanks with GR.4
Race C Nurb GP GR.3 10 laps, RM and RS required during race.

That's another whole month skipping GT Sport then.

Yeah, same here. I'll be on the mountain as much as I can for the rest of the week (since we'll most likely never get it again in GTS) and then it's (at least) a month off. The new races are not for me. Races A and B are too short to even bother with and I'm just not competitive on Nurb GP, plus I absolutely despise the 1st sector.

 

[Chris30]

Race A Special Stage Route X N600, yawn!
Race B Sardegna A GR.4 4 laps, was fun in GR.3 but no thanks with GR.4
Race C Nurb GP GR.3 10 laps, RM and RS required during race.

That's another whole month skipping GT Sport then.

Well at least that will give me more time to win as many races as I can during the 1-month period. Now to figure out the best cars to use to get the best/lowest lap times! That's the puzzle to solve.

 

[RPR6143 RPG]

I bet Gran Turismo Sport will be unplayable once it goes offline. They will make you move onto Gran Turismo 7 whatever you like it or not. No more saving the game and it stays where it was before it gets terminated.

 

[Miroku]

I bet Gran Turismo Sport will be unplayable once it goes offline. They will make you move onto Gran Turismo 7 whatever you like it or not. No more saving the game and it stays where it was before it gets terminated.

That will be a horrible move to take. It would prove to many people that games are not playable after servers are shut down which will create more divide and backlash among the gaming community.

If I am able to play GT1-6 without an issue....GT Sport should be the same. If not...than bye bye Gran Turismo forever....I will never support the series ever again because that ridiculous. The offline portion of GT Sport has more to do than GT7....making all that unplayable is ridiculous.

 

[Artremis]

I bet Gran Turismo Sport will be unplayable once it goes offline. They will make you move onto Gran Turismo 7 whatever you like it or not. No more saving the game and it stays where it was before it gets terminated.

Would be a tremendously dumb decision when GTS already works 90% offline, they'd just need to patch offline saving and offline Brand Central and it'd work perfectly as an offline game. If I had to guess, they'll patch it to set the precedent for GT7.

 

[Chris30]

Honestly I could not live without GT and taking away the online mode means that Sony and PD betrayed us which would not be fair.

 

[Imari]

That will be a horrible move to take. It would prove to many people that games are not playable after servers are shut down which will create more divide and backlash among the gaming community.

If I am able to play GT1-6 without an issue....GT Sport should be the same. If not...than bye bye Gran Turismo forever....I will never support the series ever again because that ridiculous. The offline portion of GT Sport has more to do than GT7....making all that unplayable is ridiculous.

I mean... GT5 and 6 have issues being played offline. Fairly important parts of the experience are simply unavailable (track creator, OCD,etc) but you're right that the core of it is still available.

If they just turn the GTS disc into a coaster and you're unable to even play through the single player content then it's going to be a bad move. I struggle to think of another single player game that has done that.

 

[Yadeehoo]

It's wild that they're dropping support so fast. I can't imagine that it takes a whole lot of work for someone to throw together some races for the week, so not doing it seems like a considered decision.

That they would do it even with the negative PR surrounding GT7 at the moment is ballsy. I can't see many people viewing this favourably, but it's another thing for people to latch onto as a potential negative for a very online-centric game like GT7. They could get a lot of free goodwill by simply announcing that they're going to keep supporting GTS by leaving it online and giving it weekly races for the next year or so.

Imagine if they said "We understand that our players love all our games, even the older ones, and while the servers and support will have to end one day we don't want to rush towards that time. There's plenty of time to play your favourite Gran Turismo, be that Sport or 7." That'd look great for them.

Would be just as easy and harm no one in the process

 

[SUPRASTAR0003]

If they shut down the servers but don’t intend to release an offline only patch, I think a lot of us would be up in arms.

It would be could if they added LAN play after so people could still play online, via LAN tunnel of course. Although very few people would probably keep playing GTS online that way and I doubt PD would do that.

 

[BrunusCL82]

One more indication that PDI has lost touch with their customers.

Has PD had contact with her clients? I think Kaz's letter to the community last month was the only time it gave consumers any satisfaction. When it comes to meeting content and consumer requests, the effect is usually the opposite. The more they want, the more PD ignores.

 

[Chris30]

Well people that are 3-5 years old don't know what they're missing with GTS. PD should keep it up cause everyone should have a chance at playing the game, to be fair. Sony is in control of what PD does, they need to let PD handle this/GT.

 

[Silver_Wolf]

I never even noticed that this had changed, that said I haven't looked at Sport much since 7 came out but I will defo have to have a few races.

Might well have a look at Race C a couple of times at least since summer break from college is coming up!

 

[Voodoovaj]

Months? Months? Not in this universe, or any other.

Do you think multiple routines of the same code checking server status, saving, retrieving and cross checking the save game data are spread willy-nilly throughout the code, just dumped in again and again where necessary?

No, there will be a set of functions, all relatively close to one another, which will handle that sort of stuff and can be called upon from anywhere in the rest of the code. Grouping code into functions that can be called upon from multiple places and reused not only makes the code smaller but helps to keep code organised. However the real utility of these re-usable functions is that, because all the code for a given purpose is all in one place and re-usable, you're reducing the locations of points of failure (bugs) and, more importantly, if you need to make any changes you only need to do it once.

The point is, all retrieving of data from online and local storage will be handled in one place, so PD's coder(s) can just go to that one function and remove (or comment out) any lines specific to online storage and the cross-checking of online/local data. Similarly for storing data, any references to saving online can be removed (or commented out) with ease. Then it would be a simple matter of permanently hard-coding certain variables to deny access (disable interface items) to certain parts of the game that absolutely rely on being online; so that would be Sport Mode, Lobby, Discover, The livery editor and parts of the Library).

I can assure you, that sort of stuff is absolute childs play, menial, do-it-with-eyes-closed level basics... managing file i/o is probably the third thing most coders learn after "hello world". Setting variables would be the second.

If experienced hackers can take the binary file(s) of a program with copy/security/licencing protections, disassemble it (into Assembler language... which is a million times harder to understand than (normal) human-readable source code) and remove said copy/security/licencing protections in a matter of days of a programs release then I'm fairly certain - no, I'm 100% certain - that PD's coders, with access to their own source code, can comment out a few lines in a matter of hours. Hell, give me the source code, and a dev-box, and I'm sure even I could figure it out within a day or two.

Not to mention, GT7 accesses the same DB which is where it gets your DR/SR and liveries.

So, there is no (technical) reason to move data to local. They can just stop hosting GTS races, but all SP content came remain.

 

[Chris30]

I never even noticed that this had changed, that said I haven't looked at Sport much since 7 came out but I will defo have to have a few races.

Might well have a look at Race C a couple of times at least since summer break from college is coming up!

Yeah, hopefully I can take this window of a break, I'm not doing paperwork,running errands to focus on sport mode. I'll buy my own copy of gt7 near my birthday. See, my brother lended me his so we've been sharing it.

 

[FerrariF40]

As long as GT7 is buggy, GT Sport will be installed on my PlayStation