The Future of Toyota Body-on-frame vehicles.

[Keef]

May 19th is the day:

2024 Toyota Tacoma is Coming May 19 - Toyota USA Newsroom

PLANO, Texas (May 4, 2023) – The all-new 2024 Toyota Tacoma world debut is on May 19, 2023. Stay tuned for more and click here to check out the previous 2024 Toyota Tacoma teasers.

pressroom.toyota.com

This amount of marketing hype is ridiculous, borderline embarrassing. This better be the best truck humanity has ever created. I'm not holding my breath. Like all my captains have told me recently, any time a company has to try and sell you something, it probably ain't worth buying.

 

[Darla Starch]

This amount of marketing hype is ridiculous, borderline embarrassing. This better be the best truck humanity has ever created. I'm not holding my breath. Like all my captains have told me recently, any time a company has to try and sell you something, it probably ain't worth buying.

Tomorrow: Toyota chucks out a teaser with the floormats

 

[Veinz]

 

[IforceV8]

TRD Pro

 

[Keef]

TRD Pro

With a one-piece plastic front bumper cover that needs to be cut in half to install an aftermarket steel one, unlike the ZR2. Although it seems most pickup trucks are going this route. I also don't see front took hooks or sliders on that TRD Pro. The normal ZR2 can be had with those, with the Bison offering even more options like a winch.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Pickup trucks are kind of going the way sport compacts / hot hatches did.

Originally, and like Sport Compacts/Hot Hatches, the off-roady variants of pickup trucks were simply the pedestrian models of those vehicles with the necessary parts to increase their capability. Think of an EM1 Honda Civic Si or a 2000ish Tacoma TRD - without being in the know, you wouldn't really see either of them as overtly signaling their capability. But now we have hyper-professionalized marketing departments and you simply cannot build a special model of a vehicle without also making it look obscenely special, because otherwise the customer can't signal to the world what their automotive hobby is! You want a Civic Type R? You better be ready for it to look like a Gundam nightmare. You want a Tacoma TRD? Cyberpunk mad max extreme overland time.

Minus the graphics, the old F150 Raptor was actually reasonably reserved. The old Z71 Silverados and Tahoes were barely distinguishable from the normal trucks. Ugh, I miss the 90s.

 

[Joey D]

Pickup trucks are kind of going the way sport compacts / hot hatches did.

Probably like hot hatches, I think companies are tired of losing money to the aftermarket. Why let some other company sell you a $700 snorkel when you can have a branded one that won't mess with the warranty for $1,200? All that for some injected molded plastic which probably costs less than $20 to make.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Probably like hot hatches, I think companies are tired of losing money to the aftermarket. Why let some other company sell you a $700 snorkel when you can have a branded one that won't mess with the warranty for $1,200? All that for some injected molded plastic which probably costs less than $20 to make.

Yeah this is a good point, and the aggro look definitely started in the aftermarket. I find it amusing that some younger automotive youtubers (TSPs mainly, I find) use the term "aggressive" in place of the word "good" as a unequivocally positive attribute with regards to exterior styling. Like the subjective dichotomy is not "good or bad" its "aggressive or bad". I guess people are terrified of looking timid, and so every car needs to look exceptionally angry. I'm trying to remember the last time a new car released that looked happy or joyful. Even the mini cooper has kind of a grimace face now, particularly in S trim. If you put a front picture up of every mustang made between 1994 and 2023, each one would look progressively angrier, each with a more deeply furrowed brow (The 2005 redesign momentarily interrupted this, as at least the base model just looked kind of lost and spaced out, rather than angry) It's kind of ridiculous. Waiting for somebody to deliver us from this unnecessarily militant design language.

 

[Keef]

Yeah this is a good point, and the aggro look definitely started in the aftermarket. I find it amusing that some younger automotive youtubers (TSPs mainly, I find) use the term "aggressive" in place of the word "good" as a unequivocally positive attribute with regards to exterior styling. Like the subjective dichotomy is not "good or bad" its "aggressive or bad". I guess people are terrified of looking timid, and so every car needs to look exceptionally angry. I'm trying to remember the last time a new car released that looked happy or joyful. Even the mini cooper has kind of a grimace face now, particularly in S trim. If you put a front picture up of every mustang made between 1994 and 2023, each one would look progressively angrier, each with a more deeply furrowed brow (The 2005 redesign momentarily interrupted this, as at least the base model just looked kind of lost and spaced out, rather than angry) It's kind of ridiculous. Waiting for somebody to deliver us from this unnecessarily militant design language.

When I read "aggressive" I don't read it as "mean", I read it as "aggressively capable" or hardcore. An off-road truck should be aggressive - it should be strong, reinforced, steel, durable, etc. That's aggressive.

As for the aftermarket, and how OEMs are offering warrantied "aftermarket" options (a good idea in my opinion if you can afford it), the type of aftermarket modification I'm interested in, let's say for my Sequoia, would be something like this:

Compare that to this:

Obviously OEMs need to pass standards while also getting decent fuel mileage and emissions which chopped bodywork and chonky metal bits don't facilitate but Toyota isn't going aggressive enough and hasn't ever, really. The Bronco is a wonderful example, and the Chevy with all the options:

You can see how some features here mirror the aftermarket parts on that Sequoia. Extra bumper/tire clearance, tow hooks, exposed skid plates, the brush bar that can take a hit, winch provisions, rock sliders which the Sequoia doesn't actually have yet, and even those replaceable rash rings on the wheels. This thing is designed to take a beating. The Sequoia TRD Pro and most of what Toyota is offering are simply designed to look aggressive, not actually be aggressive. I'd expect Toyota's new Tree Hugger package or whatever it's called to be this aggressive, otherwise they're going to start losing sales.

 

[Joey D]

I don't know what to think yet:

2024 TACOMA REVEALED!! Full Specs, Release & Pics! Hybrid Model Added

2024 Toyota Tacoma is the Ultimate Adventure Machine May 18, 2023 KONA, Hawaii (May 18, 2023) – After nearly two decades as the champion of the mid-size pickup truck market, the Toyota Tacoma is ready for its next chapter. This go-anywhere truck is entirely new for 2024 with epic adventures in...

www.tacoma4g.com

I like the the way it looks, but the loss of the V6 is disappointing. I get that it was going to happen, but I had hopes for a turbo V6 on one of the trims.

I suspect it'll be north of $50k for a decently equipped one too.

 

[05XR8]

I dig it. Way more rugged and back to the square look of their trucks from the '80s.

 

[IforceV8]

8 speed instead of 10, thats fine I guess. The interior is meh, bland colors minus the blue stripe.

 

[Darla Starch]

Midsize crew cab with a 6 foot bed in this day and age?

 

[Keef]

Edit: Had a whole thing written up but honestly it's a tossup between this and the ZR2. I prefer the ZR2's rock rail design but it appears that the Toyota's may actually be mounted to the frame rail rather than the typtical factory location where running boards would be mounted. The ZR2 has a factory available winch which frankly a huge cost savings - that's a $3,000 aftermarket investment on the Toyota to get a capable bumper and install a winch. The Chevy's interior is much more car-like but the Toyota interior has some interesting features and cool designs. I don't care about the loss of the V6 because that thing was anemic, and the hybrid is a boon over the Chevy although it's also more complex. And don't forget Chevy hasn't even debuted the ZR2 Bison yet - that thing will have 35 inch tires which is what everybody will immediately put on either of these smaller trucks.

I'd be really interested in a Trailhunter with a short bed.

 

[IforceV8]

 

[Veinz]

Love it, the current ones are still flying off the lots around here so I imagine it will be even more difficult to get one of these.

I’m really interested if I can get a good trade in for my 4Runner. I just want to know the price for the Pro already.

 

[Keef]

Love it, the current ones are still flying off the lots around here so I imagine it will be even more difficult to get one of these.

I’m really interested if I can get a good trade in for my 4Runner. I just want to know the price for the Pro already.

Tbh it's going to be expensive enough that a couple grand this way or that won't really matter lol. A fully equipped ZR2 Desert Boss - with the ZR2's front locker and factory-installed front winch neither of which Toyota has - is $64,000 USD. That's before several other options I haven't bothered slapping on.

 

[Joey D]

I don't care about the loss of the V6 because that thing was anemic, and the hybrid is a boon over the Chevy although it's also more complex. And don't forget Chevy hasn't even debuted the ZR2 Bison yet - that thing will have 35 inch tires which is what everybody will immediately put on either of these smaller trucks.

While anemic, especially when equipped with the 4.0L V6, it was dead reliable. I fear that going the turbo I4 route will reduce that reliability and make fixing anything way more expensive. I'm not too familiar with the 3.5L that the trucks had, but the 4.0L can be mended with a 10mm socket and a flathead screwdriver. Parts are/still are cheap too.

 

[Keef]

While anemic, especially when equipped with the 4.0L V6, it was dead reliable. I fear that going the turbo I4 route will reduce that reliability and make fixing anything way more expensive. I'm not too familiar with the 3.5L that the trucks had, but the 4.0L can be mended with a 10mm socket and a flathead screwdriver. Parts are/still are cheap too.

They were all built like Fort Knox honestly, same with the 4.7 and 5.7. With the heat of turbskies I gotta imagine it's impossible to be as reliable. Prii have a really good record for hybrid hardware but I'm always less concerned about that than turbos.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

The newest addition to the GA-F family, the all new Lexus GX and all new Overtrail trim

2024 Lexus GX Debuts With 389-HP V6, New Overtrail Off-Road-Focused Trim

The 2024 Lexus GX brings the SUV into its third generation to replace the current iteration that dates all the way back to a debut for the 2010 model year.

www.motor1.com

The Lexus GX's New Overtrail Trim May Come To Other Models

The 2024 Lexus GX's new Overtrail trim represents the most capable factory-built GX ever, but this is only the beginning for the new trim.

www.motor1.com

The 2024 GX rides on the body-on-frame GA-F platform that's also underneath the LX 600. It features a double-wishbone front suspension and a multi-link setup at the rear. The new model adopts electronic power steering, which Lexus claims offers increased steering feel on- and off-road. An Adaptive Variable Suspension with active dampers is an option.

At launch, the only powertrain available is the GX 550 that comes with a twin-turbo 3.4-liter V6 making 349 horsepower and 479 pound-feet of torque. It hooks up to a 10-speed automatic gearbox. This setup allows for up to 8,000 pounds of towing.

The GX's standard drivetrain includes full-time four-wheel drive and a lockable Torsen limited-slip center differential. The electronically controlled transfer case shifts between 4WD-High and 4WD-Low quicker than the previous model. The Overtrail grades also get a locking rear differential.

A hybrid powertrain will be available for the GX later. Toyota wasn't willing to provide a more specific arrival date. "We do not have a specific timeframe for the hybrid powertrain at this time," a spokesperson told Motor1.com.

The Overtrail trims come with black accents on the fenders and an aluminum skid plate. These models ride on 18-inch wheels with 33-inch tires. These trim levels are available with crawl control, downhill assist control, and 3D multi-terrain monitor. An Electronic-Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System provides additional wheel articulation for better off-road performance. The Overtrail+ gets special seats with a massage function and a power-extending cushion.

 

[IforceV8]

Old Land Cruiser vibe 👍 The horsepower de-rate is odd, why 50 hp less than the LX?

 

[McLaren]

Old Land Cruiser vibe 👍 The horsepower de-rate is odd, why 50 hp less than the LX?

Could be a "hierarchy" thing; the LX will still be considered the top SUV.

 

[Joey D]

Ok, so that means the V6TT will fit in the 6th gen 4Runner. Can that be a thing? Because a 4Runner that can tow 8,000 pounds would be right in my wheelhouse, especially if they do a kinda/sorta old school style on it like they did with the GX.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Is it sad that I knew exactly where that tree in the last photo is?

Fitting that they took their press photos in Marin, these things will be all over the place here. I think it looks pretty good.

 

[05XR8]

Look like a Pajero, aft the front doors, but I’m digging it. Good job.

 

[Keef]

Yeah so this thing is mega rad.

There is so much confusion in the media right now it seems like, and reports of "Prado coming to North America" and all this weird stuff. I'm not sure what's going on.

For years now, the Lexus GX has been the exact same thing as the global Toyota Land Cruiser Prado. The North American Toyota 4Runner has not been a Prado. There are several shared parts of course but overall the platform is not closely related. The 4Runner and Tacoma were their own things, more closely related to the Tundra and Sequoia than the Prado.

Recently Toyota says no more Big Land Cruiser in North America, so we don't get the LC300. But we still got the Prado in GX form. And now this truck proves that we get the new Prado in GX form also. This makes sense because all Toyota trucks are now sharing the same modular platform. For some reason, that sharing has prompted various media to suggest North America is getting the new Prado, and of course they note that it's on the same damn platform as all the other newest Toyota trucks will be on which is now completely irrelevant.

America doesn't get the Prado nameplate. Nobody knows what it is. It has zero cachet. We're not going to get the Prado. We are getting this GX which is the same as the Prado. We're also going to get a 4Runner which will now become the same as the GX which is the same as the Prado.

It wouldn't make any sense for Toyota to bring the Prado nameplate here and make it share the same bodystyle as the GX...unless they did something insane like blow up the 4Runner nameplate and turn it into something unexpected, like a new FJ or Jeep competitor. I highly doubt that. The FJ name also carries a ton of weight in North America, and both the FJ and 4Runner are known quantities with known bodystyles and purposes. There is absolutely no reason to muddy that.

So please, media people, stop saying the Prado is coming here because it's not. We already know the GX is based on the Prado, it has been for years, and we also already know that the new 4Runner will be based on the same platform as all the other new trucks. Unless Toyota has gone off its rocker, nothing about the nameplates is going to chance anytime soon. Toyota isn't even crazy enough to hype a new FJ which they'd immediately receive billions of orders for. If they're not crazy enough to make money then they're certainly not crazy enough to jack up decades-old nameplates.

 

[IforceV8]

 

[c172fccc]

Based on the GX, so a Land Cruiser Prado but maybe without that name?
Any words about Canada? We haven't had a Land Cruiser since 1996.

 

[Keef]

I still don't understand what the point of this is. The 4Runner, GX, and Prado have been virtually the same size and shape for about two decades now. The 4Runner was a different platform of course, and a different market, but overall the same concept. If they bring the new Prado to the US then where does that leave the 4Runner?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I still don't understand what the point of this is. The 4Runner, GX, and Prado have been virtually the same size and shape for about two decades now. The 4Runner was a different platform of course, and a different market, but overall the same concept. If they bring the new Prado to the US then where does that leave the 4Runner?

I think there is enough room in the market to sell a GX AND a Landcruiser that are essentially the same vehicle, at price points well above the 4Runner.

4Runner competitors: Bronco, Wrangler
Landcruiser competitors: LR Defender, ...?Wrangler 392? Bronco Raptor?
GX competitors: Range Rover, X6(?) GLE(?)

The GX is and has always been popular with yuppies (when new, regardless of who buys them second hand) who might otherwise buy a BMW X6.
The Landcruiser has never sold particularly well - perhaps a slightly smaller one will appear to the same type of people who might otherwise buy a LR Defender or one of the higher trim Bronco or Wranglers.

I don't think introducing a GX sized Landcruiser into the market necessarily takes sales away from the 4Runner (lower price point) nor the GX (more urban/luxury oriented). Toyota just wants to sell all the trucks.