The WTC 600 in Tokyo done without exploits is genuinely one of the hardest races in single player in gt7 - share your setups, tips, and cars

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This is my first post in GTPlanet in more than a decade! I've been trying to understand the AI's response to different difficulty settings on this race lately, and I feel like I'm left more confused than when I'd started.

I recently got back into GT7 after a fairly long hiatus, largely inspired to after lurking this thread and seeing the different setups everyone used to beat this race. Since I'd been out for a while, I set my game difficulty to Easy to get back in the rhythm of this race. I was already quite surprised by how quick the AI was in this race on Easy. I had learned from scrolling through this thread that the AI's performance in this race on lower difficulty levels did jump significantly since I last played the game, but something still felt off - particularly seeing the AI sporadically match times like 2:08.xxx touted by top tuners like Praiano and other users (who I assumed would be running this race on hard). I think I'd seen either in this thread or reddit someone mention that Easy to Hard had about a 10 second variation in finish times, with easy usually finishing around 27:35 and 27:25 - but I often found the AI finishing under 27:30 even on easy.

After about 25 runs beating the AI with CRB consistently I decided I was ready to try the race on a harder difficulty, so I switched the difficulty to Normal. But on this attempt, I was surprised to find the 2nd place AI log probably the slowest time I'd seen on this race ever (27:38.454). Wanting to understand more, I logged the times from my next 18 attempts of this race, consisting of 6 sets of attempts on different difficulty levels with the same cars/tunes. (I know I'm hardly the fastest in this race, please don't judge :3)

Here's the full data:
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And here's a summary of the median and mean times:
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I'm not an expert on how the AI works in this game by any means, but I feel like I'm seeing barely any difference in the AI's pace for this race at different difficulty settings - especially compared to other races of this length where the AI is more than a minute slower on easy than on hard. But I can't ignore how much more consistent the AI was on hard, with no attempts where the FD3S pit twice. It's almost like the AI on this event always operates on hard pace but still operates with weaker decision making skills at lower levels - leading to more variation and mistakes? I'd be really keen to hear from anyone else.
 
I find that the FD3S pits twice if you are running near it towards the end, regardless of the difficulty. The AI kind of latches onto you if you are nearby and will significantly increase it's pace to stay close to you, and when that happens the RX7 burns through its tires very quickly. The races that the FD3S pit twice, per your data, were the ones where your finishing time was very close to the RX-7's typical finishing time, implying it was near you and pushing towards the end. The ones where you were further ahead, it wasn't racing you.

I did a race today - Custom race 90 mins at La Sarthe (no chicane) with cars from my garage between 550-600PP. 0X tire wear, 1x fuel usage. Professional difficulty. I used my SLR @ 600PP. On SH tires I was running about 4:00 laps consistently and the 2nd place Ferrari F430 (599PP) was about 8 seconds back (amazingly with a higher top speed on the straight than the 620hp SLR, somehow). The Ferrari was running consistently in the 4:01 range or thereabouts per the replay. When I pit for fuel I decided to swap for SS tires and this put my lap times down to around 3:52. What do you know, as soon as I did that, the Ferrari also started running around 3:53 on the same tire. Keep in mind every other car in the field was 1 or even 2 laps down, and somehow the Ferrari was stuck to me like glue. The AI is many things, but consistent is not one of them.
 
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TokyoDrifloon
I'm not an expert on how the AI works in this game by any means
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None of us is and everything is based on speculation and observation.

Like @Eunos_Cosmo said just before:
If you are very close to any AI car, this car will drive "more competitive" and it will result in a propable extra pit stop.

Then, as everyone should be aware off:
AI is absolutely not consistent in their own pace.
6 attempts per difficulty is barely enough to really see their delta of high and low times.
You could propable collect additional data from this thread to make a more informed statistic about it:

AI times by screenshots within this thread since februrary 23 (difficulty setting undefined) until Jan 17, 2024
27m + xs
05 - 1
10 - 2
12 - 2
15 - 2
16 - 1
17 - 1
18 - 2
19 - 2
20 - 4
21 - 4
22 - 1
23 - 2
24 - 2
25 - 7
26 - 4
27 - 9
28 - 8
29 - 5
30 - 4
31 - 9
32 - 6
33 - 12
34 - 5
35 - 8
36 - 8
37 - 5
38 - 6
39 - 7
40 - 4
41 - 3
42 - 2
43 - 3
46 - 2
48 - 1
49 - 1
53 - 1
 
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I've been finding it very satisfying to take the Chevelle, massage it up to just under 600PP on SH tires, and use it to farm credits at this race. It's ended up being a much closer race than what I experienced with the Alfa 8C and my original farming car, the '16 Camaro SS. I've put almost 800miles on the Chevelle doing this race.

For the Chevelle, I've taken Praiano's suspension and tranny settings. Had to fiddle the final gear to get the thing to do 177MPH w/o draft on the front straight. Have yet to see if I can one stop it. Don't think it'll carry enough speed to make up the difference.

I noticed, prior to using the Chevelle here, the AI fast laps were usually in the 2:09s with an occasional 2:08 here and there. Since the Chevelle, they've run in the 2:11 range more often than not.
 
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Dragonwhisky
I've been finding it very satisfying to take the Chevelle, massage it up to just under 600PP on SH tires, and use it to farm credits at this race. It's ended up being a much closer race than what I experienced with the Alfa 8C and my original farming car, the '16 Camaro SS. I've put almost 800miles on the Chevelle doing this race.

For the Chevelle, I've taken Praiano's suspension and tranny settings. Had to fiddle the final gear to get the thing to do 177MPH w/o draft on the front straight. Have yet to see if I can one stop it. Don't think it'll carry enough speed to make up the difference.

I noticed, prior to using the Chevelle here, the AI fast laps were usually in the 2:09s with an occasional 2:08 here and there. Since the Chevelle, they've run in the 2:11 range more often than not.
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Which permanent tunes (widebody/engine/bodywork) did you install? Bolt-ons?

I've found for most cars on Tokyo 600, keeping the weight as high as possible is good for tuning on this race, the points are better spent on power, and holding the car down with aero hurts the lap time too mich on the straight.
 
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Adwinistrator
Which permanent tunes (widebody/engine/bodywork) did you install? Bolt-ons?

I've found for most cars on Tokyo 600, keeping the weight as high as possible is good for tuning on this race, the points are better spent on power, and holding the car down with aero hurts the lap time too mich on the straight.
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I mighta' went a little light on it when I first starting putting the parts on it. May try your idea on another one and see how it drives.
Here's the sheets for it in its present form.
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This build will out pull all but 3 opponent cars to 170mph. With a tight draft it'll run about 184mph down the front straight. I usually beat Kokubun by 5-10 seconds, if he doesn't pit on lap 9 like he did the last run I did. It does have trouble getting away at the double right hairpin before the front straight. Took me about 7 runs to settle on this tune and I've been getting reliable wins running just about 27.5 minutes total race time. I'm sure someone with more talent than I, there are many, can make it faster.
 
Dragonwhisky
I mighta' went a little light on it when I first starting putting the parts on it. May try your idea on another one and see how it drives.
Here's the sheets for it in its present form.
View attachment 1351948
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This build will out pull all but 3 opponent cars to 170mph. With a tight draft it'll run about 184mph down the front straight. I usually beat Kokubun by 5-10 seconds, if he doesn't pit on lap 9 like he did the last run I did. It does have trouble getting away at the double right hairpin before the front straight. Took me about 7 runs to settle on this tune and I've been getting reliable wins running just about 27.5 minutes total race time. I'm sure someone with more talent than I, there are many, can make it faster.
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Yeah, this car is a bit tricky to get tuned for Tokyo 600. Tried leaving the weight on without downforce, and it'll spin out in 4th. Added ballast and it chewed through the SH tires by lap 4. Removed ballast and added some downforce, and it was controllable, but still was doing lap 6 and 12 with zero rear tires.

Pretty sure some weight reduction is necessary for tire management, and downforce is needed for stability. Tough to balance for sure though. Maybe weight reduction 1 with medium downforce and a bit of ballast to the rear?

Are you using wide body on yours? What tire size/width/offset?
 
Adwinistrator
Yeah, this car is a bit tricky to get tuned for Tokyo 600. Tried leaving the weight on without downforce, and it'll spin out in 4th. Added ballast and it chewed through the SH tires by lap 4. Removed ballast and added some downforce, and it was controllable, but still was doing lap 6 and 12 with zero rear tires.

Pretty sure some weight reduction is necessary for tire management, and downforce is needed for stability. Tough to balance for sure though. Maybe weight reduction 1 with medium downforce and a bit of ballast to the rear?

Are you using wide body on yours? What tire size/width/offset?
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Wide body, I think 18" wide wheels, wide offset. Only ever pit for fuel never for tires. None of the builds I've done have eaten the tires. I'm slow I reckon. No ballast added on any build.
 
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Dragonwhisky
Wide body, I think 18" wide wheels, wide offset. Only ever pit for fuel never for tires. None of the builds I've done have eaten the tires. I'm slow I reckon. No ballast added on any build.
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I'm also using no assists, so tire wear might be greater even if I'm not exxxtreme drifting. Lighter car might be a huge difference though.

You're definitely not slow. I had a fairly clean race besides 2 laps with 0% rear tires, and was 15 seconds behind Kokobun...
 
Batschisane52
If you win with that car you are not at all slow...:)
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Adwinistrator
I'm also using no assists, so tire wear might be greater even if I'm not exxxtreme drifting. Lighter car might be a huge difference though.

You're definitely not slow. I had a fairly clean race besides 2 laps with 0% rear tires, and was 15 seconds behind Kokobun...
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The results of the online TTs @half_sourly keeps would disagree to some extent.

Only assist, I call them "Nannies", I ever run with is ABS weak. If you run without ABS you're much braver than I. I tried ABS off back in GT6 days and didn't get along with that at all, even fiddling with BB.

So far, in the races I've won, I've pulled into 11th by the first turn, if arty idiots fall out in my favor, I'll gain 2 or more positions on the back side of the track on the first lap. Usually in 6th or 5th by end of L2 and catching up to top 3, mostly on the back side of the track. Gallo in the NSX usually pits on L4 or L5 and I'll pick up 3rd and sometimes 2nd. Kokubun and Suswillo will pit at the end of L6, although I've seen both run to L7 which is when I pit for fuel. If I follow them in I'll jump them just getting fuel and Gallo will pass me coming out. I could decide to just follow Gallo until he pits again for the easy win but I don't usually. Sometimes it take me 2 laps to get past him or wait for him to pit, either way, if Kokubun is near by then he'll burn up his SS tires catching you and pit on L11 giving you the win. Roll that throttle on everywhere. Only time I stomp it to the mat is if I'm on dry pavement and she's running on the straight and narrow, 3rd and 4th gear are all that's needed for all but that double right hairpin. Been exiting that in 1st at about half - two thirds throttle snap shift to 2nd before the left kink and mat the pedal after and throw it in 3rd for the drag race.

Ya'll want a replay? Think I have one saved I can throw up on YT.
 
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Easy win with the Chevelle:
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Not a bad car but it certainly reacts very differently once its fuel tank gets below 1/4. The whole car seems to have much less grip everywhere. Braking performance suffers, turn in response suffers, acceleration suffers, mid-turn throttle inputs suffer. I know other cars experience this, but this car seems to suffer the most from it. So, while it is an easy win it does keep you on your toes. Ran FM1 the whole way, short shifted at the half way point on the rev meter while using the hood/roof cam view. I think that is somewhere around 7200 rpms. The power falls flat on its face after that.

IMG_1763.jpeg


It’s certainly no Boss 429, then again there are really only 2 or 3 other cars like that one. But for classic cars running Tokyo, this may be second or third place on that list.
 
Told you guys. I haven't finished in under 27minutes. Tommy probably didn't even modify it as much as I did.

I run in VR and I was shifting, according to the in dash tach, at 6.5k and sometimes at 6k.

Here's the replay of my last run.

 
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My Chevelle is pretty well modded. 752hp. Hits 197mph on the straight without a draft. I spent a bunch of time dialing in the transmission and was able to gain a few seconds per lap because of it.

Widebody, 17” wide/wide wheels, Front type B aero and Custom Low wing.
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I havent tried the "power setup" but I generally like less weight.
As I only have one of these, I couldnt test with power, and I dont have any issue with "less weight less traction" during the race.
Smooth driving, but I wish I had just +5km/h at the end 😅

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daan
Suswillo got 2nd? That's unusual. What happened to Kokobun and Gallo?
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This usually happens when you get kokobun chasing you for a bit and he uses up the SS tires too quick. He'll pit early and end up pitting twice.

Gallo pits twice for me 90% of the time, so the GT-R get's second with a huge gap.
 
daan
Suswillo got 2nd? That's unusual. What happened to Kokobun and Gallo?
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I have no clue, I didnt recognize it at time to be interested enough to watch how it played it like that.
Adwinistrator
This usually happens when you get kokobun chasing you for a bit and he uses up the SS tires too quick. He'll pit early and end up pitting twice.
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This could propably be the case, but I dont think I "triggered" the flag for it to happen.
I think it was something like that: lap 4 Gallo -> 1s up to pit entry -> Me -> 5s -> Kokobun/Suswillo
So propably Kokobun/Suswillo were exhausting each other with me just in sight but never catching up without them AI drafting each other.
 
Le Mans is boring. And you can’t make it go any faster. It’s always 30 minutes. Tokyo can be done in hundreds of different cars and you can get the race down to the 24 minute range if you choose some crazy glitch builds. Plus it’s actually fun. The high speed turns, ducking around the AI on the brakes or planning out a pass on the exit of the turns. Le Mans is just long straights with small sections of mid speed turns thrown in between them.
 
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Tommy_D
The high speed turns, ducking around the AI on the brakes or planning out a pass on the exit of the turns.
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Try the E-Type 61, this car really has significant cornering at the cost of eating tyres for being such a lightweight.
You desperatly need to keep the AI behind you, otherwise you will be losing time for not driving to the cars strength.

I ran these 4 today, except for the E-type none of them is out of the ordinary to me, yet I dont claim any of them are optimized - just did each of them twice to find an initially satisfying setup.
Especially the boss is not living up to the speed others have postead last during year, so going light on this car is definitly not the best choice 😶
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Tommy_D
Le Mans is boring. And you can’t make it go any faster. It’s always 30 minutes. Tokyo can be done in hundreds of different cars and you can get the race down to the 24 minute range if you choose some crazy glitch builds. Plus it’s actually fun. The high speed turns, ducking around the AI on the brakes or planning out a pass on the exit of the turns. Le Mans is just long straights with small sections of mid speed turns thrown in between them.
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I have fallen asleep at LeMans, but never at Tokyo.
 
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Sound is nice, driving is okay, but the straight feels eternal.
At first glance I thought this was the car with the least power I landed a P1 with, but then just the day before the GT2000 is actually a little bit weaker yet leagues faster.
 

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