GT Sport and money.

[MatskiMonk]

I have no idea how much GT League pays out

17,020,000 Credits in total if each race is won without car handicap or clean race bonus. I'm estimating* 19,044,200 is reasonable including handicap bonus, and obviously any clean race bonus can be added to that also.

*Haven't completed this playthrough yet so haven't determined whats reasonable for all races yet.

 

[Thorin Cain]

but I do think 15-20m for a car is pushing it.

Even if said prices maintain some form of exclusivity for cars that, let's face it, are extremely rare?

 

[rallymorten]

Fundamentally, enjoyment.

Enjoyment, you say?

If you'd please, could you (and @fordlaser too, for that matter) describe the enjoyment you're getting from GT Sport in a bit more detail (and yes, I did see the bit where you go on to talk about satisfaction), with a particular focus on how your enjoyment of the game would be lessened if the economy system (and/or rewards system at large) was to be rebalanced to make certain items more accessible?

 

[ferreira]

Even if said prices maintain some form of exclusivity for cars that, let's face it, are extremely rare?

I agree there should be some form of exclusivity for certain cars - my concern was more about how long it would actually take i.e. 2 years +/- of casual gaming. On second thought, it seems quite reasonable taking into consideration the potential winnings in GT League that @MatskiMonk mentioned. My mind had been changed.

 

[MMX]

I bought all 3 of these cars, with the first one in early to mid September, doing not much more than the daily work. I have stepped that up the last month or so, running the Le Sarthe 3-4 times in a day, but the effort has been minimal. Just got to set at least 15 minutes aside each day, and it adds up quick.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Enjoyment, you say?

If you'd please, could you (and @fordlaser too, for that matter) describe the enjoyment you're getting from GT Sport in a bit more detail (and yes, I did see the bit where you go on to talk about satisfaction), with a particular focus on how your enjoyment of the game would be lessened if the economy system (and/or rewards system at large) was to be rebalanced to make certain items more accessible?

Can't say it would affect my gaming experience that much either way in all honesty, I probably will collect all the cars in the game at some stage but it's not a key part of the game for me personally. My question would be why should PD make something more accessible that they clearly don't want to be particularly accessible?

 

[crooky369]

It's not enough. I've played for 250 days and won 321 cars... Not one prize car has been one of the ultra expensive cars!

I've earnt 54 million credits including a few weeks of grinding and bought the Ferrari 330sp.

I just do custom races that I think will be an interesting challenge in arcade mode most days. I'm hoping that one day my luck will change...

 

[rallymorten]

Can't say it would affect my gaming experience that much either way in all honesty

..so exactly why are you this vehemently against the idea of rebalancing? You've just said that making these items more accessible wouldn't affect your experience with the game significantly, so what's actually the problem with other people wanting them to be more accessible - is that even a problem in the first place?

My question would be why should be make something more accessible that they clearly don't want to be particularly accessible?

Since you've been kind enough to provide some satisfactory answers to me, I shall do my best to return the favor.

In terms of making credits to buy these cars, it's this simple: the more achievable an item is perceived, the more likely I am to go for it. "Achievable", obviously, is a highly subjective matter. Some people consider it "achievable" if there's a vague mathematical chance of something coming true within their lifetime. Others don't consider something achievable if it takes more than an afternoon. The threshold varies from person to person, and that's all fine and dandy.

The issue I - and quite a few others, as should be evident by the amount of threads on this very subject popping up - have with the system in GT Sport, is that the 20-million cars aren't perceived as particularly accessible. And frankly, when you do the maths, you can see why: with the current grind meta (I know full well there are other ways of "playing the game", but because this is science, we're interested in making as many credits as possible), that's still 10+ hours of Blue Moon Bay'ing around per car. For some people, that's achievable. For others, it plain isn't.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to what you said before: enjoyment. Some people enjoy playing games in different ways. Why do you think Easy mode is a thing*?

Let's face the music: the only factor limiting access to the 20-million cars is just that - their price and the amount of time and effort it'd take to acheive them, potentially (*refers to number of threads so as to imply that "potentially" isn't really the right word*) limiting their enjoyment of the game. Why, then, should what at this point amounts to an inflated ego of some players - no names - come at the cost of the enjoyment of others?

I do believe that there is a balance to be found. A sweet spot at which both sides of the argument can agree that this is acceptable. Of the last three games, I say take a leaf out of GT6's (while the login bonus was still a thing) book: 5 hours of hardcore grinding at the most. It'll still take effort, but it'll be a lot more achievable to so many more players. Some might even say it gives them that much more freedom overall, and makes the game more enjoyable. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe more people enjoying the game is generally considered a good thing all around.

*Apart from in the Soulsborn games, obviously. Then again, if one has to refer to the Soulsborn games as a means to validate their point about a game being "balanced"..

 

[MightyL]

The fact grinding is done by alot of people means it is somehow rewarding to get to a certain goal. You are not going to tell me that people just LOVE doing the 15 laps TT event over and over again. This means something is wrong with the setup of the game, with how it is build. I think PD should make the core of the game more rewarding so grinding is not needed. If the Sport mode is their most important part of the game, they should make sure that the rewards for doing those are more appealing, so more people play those instead of doing the, let's say it bluntly, stupid boring grinding.

and by the way, this is all just an observation. I'm not complaining. I love driving all the N class cars in their stock outfit in some of the online lobbies. I'm enjoying the game quite alot. Periods of intense playing and periods of not touching the game at all.

 

[250 GTO]

I understand not putting them in the prize draw, but the grind is a bit too much IMO.

They are tho. That’s where I got my Ferrari P4 from. And except for the 250 GTO (go figure) I’ve seen all of them on the prize rotisserie, a couple of times. Especially the Jaguar has a habit of showing up.

 

[MMX]

It's not that hard to get those cars. As I posted already, I bought 3 in less than 4 months, totally 45 million credits. Most of the time I do the minimum mileage at a high paying race(Le Sarthe), which is two races(15 minutes). Sometimes I'd run it more, but that's been recently.

 

[CBH]

The fact grinding is done by alot of people means it is somehow rewarding to get to a certain goal. You are not going to tell me that people just LOVE doing the 15 laps TT event over and over again. This means something is wrong with the setup of the game, with how it is build. I think PD should make the core of the game more rewarding so grinding is not needed. If the Sport mode is their most important part of the game, they should make sure that the rewards for doing those are more appealing, so more people play those instead of doing the, let's say it bluntly, stupid boring grinding.

PD has got the credit system well balance and spot on across the board for this game, and also in Sport Mode so there is no need for PD to do anything.

You talk about making it more rewarding so grinding is not needed, come on mate GT6 had online seasonal race with good payouts, and players like myself still done a lot of grinding to get all the cars they want, because GT6 did have well over a 1000 cars to choose from in the game to buy, so don't talk a whole lot of crap about grinding is boring. Just remember if you don't grind for credits in this game, well you are not going to get the things you want are you.

 

[kjeldsen]

Look another thread with the same discussion as the main thread on the subject: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/economy-system-is-a-piece-of.382725/

I have stepped that up the last month or so, running the Le Sarthe 3-4 times in a day, but the effort has been minimal. Just got to set at least 15 minutes aside each day, and it adds up quick.

Yeah, and as we have discussed in endless other threads setting aside 30-40 minutes to grind credits offline is not helping PD and the game.

Here is my repost from a repost on the same subject that i reposted in another thread..

While i agree that the game has some very expensive cars that are borderline impossible to get for most normal players i also understand that there is a very simple reason. My first goal was to unlock tracks, then i earned money to get certain cars, then i used all my money on GR2 cars etc etc..
However, i do not play the game as much as others do, and they have rewards to work for, because for some players 20 million is not impossible.

The main issue with these cars are their price makes it difficult to earn enough to buy them by playing online. PD should use these cars to get more people to play online. Create a milestone, let every race completed online add to the milestone, every Q lap done, every clean race. When the milestone is complete, the game creates a unique wheel of fortune with Unicorn cars you do NOT own and rolls the dice.

Use the milestone bonus to teach how to drive online, more added to the milestone when qualifying for a race, milestone bonus for 1-3-5-10-15-20 races pr day. Milestone bonus for doing all 3 races. Milestone for joining FIA races. Milestone for racing different cars in every race. Milestone for 30 clean passes. Adjust the milestone bonus so that the majority of bonus comes from completing races online and let everything else be small bonuses.

This would be a classic reward system seen in every modern online game that keeps players interested and active, i would personally prefer the bonuses to change during the week and be something you had to activate by picking the challenges personally. This is totally out of the Destiny and WoW book.

And i could add to my brilliant idea that it really works, Destiny 1 is my most played game on the PS4 with almost 1000 hours logged, Destiny 2 on the PC has me playing every day, there is ALWAYS something to do, and it is fun, and the rewards keeps coming in. Adding unicorn cars to the "loot pool" in GT-Sport would be a guaranteed way to see more players online. Except for a few bad races last week i haven't really played GTS this week, crap daily races and a wheel of misfortune does not tempt me. Milestones that would help me get new awesome cars would have me playing everyday to complete some of the dailies.

 

[SjefGielen]

In the end the only thing important to me is the satisfaction I Get from playing the game, right now it’s getting my Nordschleife lap times for all cars down, Every second I lower one by is hugely rewarding in teams of satisfaction, on the other hand, would I have set my mind on another twenty million car I would have to do something else because every TT session only rewards me 13,000 credits, regardless the number of laps I put in.

 

[CBH]

There is nothing wrong with the setup of the game, grinding you have to do it to get the things you want in the game like cars. If you don't like grinding for credits, well it is going to take you a very very long time to get things you might want, like those expensive cars.

You can not blame the game just because you can not play much, remember playing less and you will earn less credits and I will always keep on saying this, PD has got the Reward System spot on but you need to play the game more to win more credits, and if it involved grinding well you have to do it like in GT6.

Remember do not blame the game, because it is not the games fault it is you.

 

[GTV0819]

PD wants you to grind for many hours and doing so will also add to your total play time with the game.

 

[Majorwolf72]

I disagree with that. I consider myself a regular gt sport player. Twice a week is not a bad rate. If it takes me more than half a year to buy 1 20mil car of which there are 4 (if im correct) without buying any other car, i think prize money and what some cars cost are not in proportion. Im not looking for a too easy way to get those cars but somehow the way it is now is not balanced...

Playing twice a week is „casual“, not „regular“. If I only played twice a week I‘d never get better on this game...

The fact grinding is done by alot of people means it is somehow rewarding to get to a certain goal. You are not going to tell me that people just LOVE doing the 15 laps TT event over and over again. This means something is wrong with the setup of the game, with how it is build. I think PD should make the core of the game more rewarding so grinding is not needed. If the Sport mode is their most important part of the game, they should make sure that the rewards for doing those are more appealing, so more people play those instead of doing the, let's say it bluntly, stupid boring grinding.

and by the way, this is all just an observation. I'm not complaining. I love driving all the N class cars in their stock outfit in some of the online lobbies. I'm enjoying the game quite alot. Periods of intense playing and periods of not touching the game at all.

Actually, since PD partners with FIA and all that, it is clear that this game is not about grinding or collecting cars. It is about online racing, be it in private leagues or in the FIA cups.

There are other games on PS4 much better suited for the „collector“ who may not have the time to invest a) real money into real equipment and b) time into honing skills in order to advance in ratings.

To give you an example: I am a single dad of an 8 year old, I work more than a full time job and race between 4 and 7 hours per day. Yes, I sleep between 3 and 4, since that darn day only has 24. I race in two teams with their race schedules, race all the cup races, now multiple times since you can since the start of the new season, I have a European (Level 45 and Rating B S in 5 month) and recently also an American (Level 27 and Rating B S in 5 days) account. (Oh, and I play a little F1 2018 on the side...). I have Fanatec equipment, an aluminium rig, the works. And I want to get better. Every. Single. Day.

That‘s the player type GT Sport is actually made for.

Then there’s Assetto Corsa and Project Cars 2. And other stuff on other platforms. Maybe worth a look from a collector side.

 

[Zevious Z]

Oh yeah! GT Sport is serious business! LOL

 

[Majorwolf72]

Oh yeah! GT Sport is serious business! LOL

It actually is. I‘m putting something together with the top European players that will generate real money. Because Simracing is just about to kick off in E-Sports.

 

[ARTAsean]

Actually, since PD partners with FIA and all that, it is clear that this game is not about grinding or collecting cars. It is about online racing, be it in private leagues or in the FIA cups.

There are other games on PS4 much better suited for the „collector“ who may not have the time to invest a) real money into real equipment and b) time into honing skills in order to advance in ratings.

To give you an example: I am a single dad of an 8 year old, I work more than a full time job and race between 4 and 7 hours per day. Yes, I sleep between 3 and 4, since that darn day only has 24. I race in two teams with their race schedules, race all the cup races, now multiple times since you can since the start of the new season, I have a European (Level 45 and Rating B S in 5 month) and recently also an American (Level 27 and Rating B S in 5 days) account. (Oh, and I play a little F1 2018 on the side...). I have Fanatec equipment, an aluminium rig, the works. And I want to get better. Every. Single. Day.

That‘s the player type GT Sport is actually made for.

Then there’s Assetto Corsa and Project Cars 2. And other stuff on other platforms. Maybe worth a look from a collector side.

I'm lucky to get 4-5 hours of GT Sport in on the weekends only, and I've still managed to Platinum trophy this game, as well as get over 125 Sport Mode wins.

Sounds to me you have a bit of cognitive dissonance in regards to what is a blatant Video Gaming Addiction. 3 hours of sleep a night? Really?

You don't represent the GT target audience. You're a guy in need of some help. Just IMO.

 

[Zevious Z]

It actually is..

for you. I paid for the game too and am free to enjoy it any way and as seriously as I see fit. I've done the serious online racing thing. Don't have time for it now. But GT Sport is also the driving game that plays best with a DS4 so it's the game I choose to play. PCars is bollocks with a DS4. For me, GT Sport is a time trial game. All I want to do is take cars out for simulated track days at The Ring. If PD doesn't want me to do that, they should remove arcade mode altogether.

 

[Majorwolf72]

I'm lucky to get 4-5 hours of GT Sport in on the weekends only, and I've still managed to Platinum trophy this game, as well as get over 125 Sport Mode wins.

Sounds to me you have a bit of cognitive dissonance in regards to what is a blatant Video Gaming Addiction. 3 hours of sleep a night? Really?

You don't represent the GT target audience. You're a guy in need of some help. Just IMO.

Good for you! I‘m a Soldier, I don’t need much sleep. And we tend to do stuff 100%. Or not. I‘m also German. So maybe in other parts of the world you might call that „addiction“, here it‘s just being serious and thorough.

Best Nations driverwise on GT Sport: No 1: Japan No 2: Germany. Why? Mindset!

for you. I paid for the game too and am free to enjoy it any way and as seriously as I see fit. I've done the serious online racing thing. Don't have time for it now. But GT Sport is also the driving game that plays best with a DS4 so it's the game I choose to play. PCars is bollocks with a DS4. For me, GT Sport is a time trial game. All I want to do is take cars out for simulated track days at The Ring. If PD doesn't want me to do that, they should remove arcade mode altogether.

Then don’t answer my post with a LOL... PD will accept everyone‘s money, that much is for sure

 

[Zevious Z]

Then don’t answer my post with a LOL... PD will accept everyone‘s money, that much is for sure

I thought the post was funny, so I LOL'd.

Good for you! I‘m a Soldier, I don’t need much sleep. And we tend to do stuff 100%. Or not. I‘m also German. So maybe in other parts of the world you might call that „addiction“, here it‘s just being serious and thorough.

Best Nations driverwise on GT Sport: No 1: Japan No 2: Germany. Why? Mindset!

I thought this one was funny too. LOL...

 

[Majorwolf72]

I thought the post was funny, so I LOL'd.



I thought this one was funny too. LOL...

You LOL all you want. People like me will save your and your families behind if the crap hits the fan. We‘ll see who‘ll LOL then. Still hope we‘ll never get in such a situation. And still: Merry Xmas!

 

[ferreira]

Good for you! I‘m a Soldier, I don’t need much sleep. And we tend to do stuff 100%. Or not. I‘m also German. So maybe in other parts of the world you might call that „addiction“, here it‘s just being serious and thorough.

Best Nations driverwise on GT Sport: No 1: Japan No 2: Germany. Why? Mindset!

7 hours per day sounds like more of an addiction rather than mindset/work ethic (if you're not a professional gamer/streamer). But that's just my opinion.


By the way the Nations World Champion is actually Brazilian....

 

[Zevious Z]

You LOL all you want. People like me will save your and your families behind if the crap hits the fan. We‘ll see who‘ll LOL then. Still hope we‘ll never get in such a situation. And still: Merry Xmas!

Hahaha OMG. Look, you're a hard dude and all that and I appreciate you serving your country...but this is a video game forum. Nobody really cares if you are a soldier and soldiering has nothing to do with how committed or not you are to a racing video game. I'm not LOLing about you being a soldier. I'm LOLing at you being all "racing games are SERIOUS BIZNISS and if you aren't SERIOUS you can go home" about GT Sport.

 

[Majorwolf72]

7 hours per day sounds like more of an addiction rather than mindset/work ethic (if you're not a professional gamer/streamer). But that's just my opinion.


By the way the Nations World Champion is actually Brazilian....

I know Igor from email exchange and I know Mik, the number 2, because I occasionally do a lobby with him. You won’t find anyone who’s more dedicated than Igor. Bear in mind that he‘s an actual race driver. He started shaping his career at age 5 (well, rather his dad did, but he was happy to go along...), he‘s fluent in Japanese for one reason: That’s, where E-Sports is biggest.

Insofar the best example that taking it seriously can lead to serious success. There will always be talents, and I think Lightning belongs in that category, he‘s just a natural. But he also does A LOT of homework.

My point is: If you don’t dedicate serious effort, don’t be moaning about game mechanics. „This game should pay me more for what I do...“ No, if you don’t make enough, chances are you are not doing it right. Then you might aswell look somewhere else. Since your mindset and the prerequisites of the game seem to mismatch.

7.5 hours was the 19th when I did 2 Cups each on my German and one cup each on my U.S. account. Because I can. Until yesterday (on vacation now, so no gaming) I held No.1 in Florida in Nations. On a second account. And I like that. I‘m not a pro gamer, but I understand what makes a pro tick better every day. And also what makes a fan tick, since I‘m good but still far from the top. So now I‘m developing business and marketing ideas with the pros I‘ve gotten to know (because they appreciate a mortals effort when they see it) in order to make us a buck or two.

Yeah, I could sit back and watch Netflix in those seven hours or quilt, but I choose to get active and involved. And my kid, whom I still spend a lot of time with, sees that and learns: When you love something, give it your all. Don’t sit on your butt, get active.

So, from my side of the fence not too many negative aspects. Everyone has a right to their opinion and their life. But calling me „borderline addicted“ kinda exceeds the criteria.

By the way, I’m times of NATO and the complex security mechanisms no one just „serves their country“. It is not unthinkable that I will defend your freedom one day. Or Canadian Soldiers mine. We actually do exactly that in deployments right now.

 

[250 GTO]

This thread took a strange turn...

 

[Majorwolf72]

This thread took a strange turn...

No kidding.

Hahaha OMG. Look, you're a hard dude and all that and I appreciate you serving your country...but this is a video game forum. Nobody really cares if you are a soldier and soldiering has nothing to do with how committed or not you are to a racing video game. I'm not LOLing about you being a soldier. I'm LOLing at you being all "racing games are SERIOUS BIZNISS and if you aren't SERIOUS you can go home" about GT Sport.

As I keep saying: You can always play Mario Kart...

 

[Zevious Z]

No kidding.



As I keep saying: You can always play Mario Kart...

Or, I can play GT Sport which I paid for just like you did and I can comment on any aspect of the game that I want to since it's a product sold to the public that has any number of different ways to be enjoyed. If it is intended by PD to be a serious, competitive online racing simulation, why do the cars need to be locked up at all? Why does there need to be any in game economy? Just have all the cars unlocked (or do like Iracing and sell them and let all the serious racers choose the makes they want to compete in.) Why does it matter to a serious fellow such as yourself if a guy like me who just wants to time trial offline at the Ring can get the cars a little more quickly? The whole collecting of cars thing is so ****ing boring! Just let me choose the car I want from the catalog and go driving for **** sake!