Super Formula - Fuji race difficulty

  • Thread starter TumeK5
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Finally beat it this past weekend:
  • SF23 with praiano63’s tune on RS tires
  • Hard difficulty
  • No rain
  • Pitted once at the end of lap 8 for fresh RS tires (no refuel)
  • Clean race bonus
  • Never activated the overtake function as I completely forgot about it (what happens when you haven’t played for a while…don’t remember which button on the steering wheel I mapped it to anyway…)
  • Did not get the fastest lap unfortunately...


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Finally, not only completed this race with a podium but miraculously won it.

IMO, the weather changes as per the tyre chosen at the start.............

My first attempt - I chose RM to make 0 stops & try to gain a few places during pitstops. The weather remained dry & sunny. There wasn't even a cloud on the radar for this race.

My second attempt - I chose RM for the front & RS for the rears. Around lap 8, it rained cats & dogs. I pitted 1 lap later because most of the times, it just rains for 1 lap's worth. Here the rain persisted & I pitted for Wet tyres. The AI cars even pitted but seems they went on dry tyres (lol). It kept raining till lap 11 quite hard & I reached to 2nd place by then. The lead car was about 16 seconds ahead of me but funnily, it pitted on Lap 15 & rejoined behind me.

I stay on the wet tyres till the end. One mistake I made was not buying IM tyres as that would've been beneficial during the switchover point between wet & dry. During this phase (lap 11-15), the cars behind me were catching me slowly as I was on Wets. had I been on IMs, I'm sure I would've had more pace. The AI cars behind me even pitted on lap 15 & made me smile so wide as I finally won this race.

P.S. - I'm not just saying that the weather changes as per the tyres chosen at the start. I rarely have got rain if I start the race on Hards. Mediums I would get rain for a lap or two. But whenever I've started on Softs, it surely rains hard for more than 1 lap.
 

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IMO, the weather changes as per the tyre chosen at the start.............

My first attempt - I chose RM to make 0 stops & try to gain a few places during pitstops. The weather remained dry & sunny. There wasn't even a cloud on the radar for this race.

My second attempt - I chose RM for the front & RS for the rears. Around lap 8, it rained cats & dogs. I pitted 1 lap later because most of the times, it just rains for 1 lap's worth. Here the rain persisted & I pitted for Wet tyres. The AI cars even pitted but seems they went on dry tyres (lol). It kept raining till lap 11 quite hard & I reached to 2nd place by then. The lead car was about 16 seconds ahead of me but funnily, it pitted on Lap 15 & rejoined behind me.

I stay on the wet tyres till the end. One mistake I made was not buying IM tyres as that would've been beneficial during the switchover point between wet & dry. During this phase (lap 11-15), the cars behind me were catching me slowly as I was on Wets. had I been on IMs, I'm sure I would've had more pace. The AI cars behind me even pitted on lap 15 & made me smile so wide as I finally won this race.

P.S. - I'm not just saying that the weather changes as per the tyres chosen at the start. I rarely have got rain if I start the race on Hards. Mediums I would get rain for a lap or two. But whenever I've started on Softs, it surely rains hard for more than 1 lap.
One of the issues I've noticed the AI have is they tend to also pit for slicks once the track begins to dry. Two extra pits for them can really give you an edge if they do it late in the race.

But if the track dries and there's still a few laps left, they may overtake you near the end of the race.
 
But if the track dries and there's still a few laps left, they may overtake you near the end of the race.
I recall suffering this once - I went from P1 to P7 on the last couple of bends before the finish line. It was like standing on a train station platform watching a train go past! ...I was really smug with myself up to that point 🙁

As for the weather being determined by the tyres you choose, I don't recall ever noticing any correlation of this kind. I concluded that the weather is entirely random ...but I could be wrong.

Well done on your win, @Uday9479 - you cut that one a bit fine, didn't you 😳
 
As i am on a new account i will go with easy difficulty this time to get it over. Same goes for the VGT, Gr.1 and NeoClassic menu books.
 
I recall suffering this once - I went from P1 to P7 on the last couple of bends before the finish line. It was like standing on a train station platform watching a train go past! ...I was really smug with myself up to that point 🙁

As for the weather being determined by the tyres you choose, I don't recall ever noticing any correlation of this kind. I concluded that the weather is entirely random ...but I could be wrong.

Well done on your win, @Uday9479 - you cut that one a bit fine, didn't you 😳
Thanks mate. I wasn't worried as I had the Overtake feature at my disposal.
 
Just started trying this after a fair bit of time not playing the game. Put Priano's tune in the SF19 and can't quite make it. Lapping on average low 1.24's.
Are people going faster than that to win or am I just getting unlucky with how the other drivers lineup in front? Last race Hizal won (11.5 ahead of me), they never pitted once and matched my last two lap times
 
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Just started trying this after a fair bit of time not playing the game. Put Priano's tune in the SF19 and can't quite make it. Lapping on average low 1.24's.
Are people going faster than that to win or am I just getting unlucky with how the other drivers lineup in front? Last race Hizal won (11.5 ahead of me), they never pitted once and matched my last two lap times
Yeah, this race is a PITA. My biggest problem is the fast left hander before the long right hander. I can never get any consistency on where my turn in point is. I can hit it just right one lap then the next lap I turn in too early and get a 1 second penalty, then the next lap I try to turn in later only to go wide and get a half second penalty. Then the weather gets foggy and I can't see the apex so I turn in too late, go wide, drop a gear to recover and still get the penalty.

I never get weather bad enough to change to inters so I end up losing to Lopez and Hizal since they only get faster and faster as the race goes on. They can run 1:23's on worn out Hard tires. I can barely manage a 1:23 on warmed up softs and no downforce.

I've been trying a RH tire on front with RM tire on rear and some medium front wing df and a little on the rear to keep the car stable through the fast left hander I suck at. You can do a no pit race with this tire setup, but my consistency is just too poor to run low 25' and 24' with this setup.
 
Best result so far: p4
best result in rain: p4
best result without rain: p9 (previously p12, and before that p20)

my fastest laps are in the high 1:23s, about 0.8 slower than the fastest ai

I started to use @praiano63 tune for the sf23 hoping to finally beat that race ( I would be happy with p3 :D). My driving style kills the tires pretty fast and I have the impression that after the pitstop (lap 7 to 8) the car has a lot less grip despite fresh tires for the rest of the race?!
 
Considering Fraga just ran a 1:21.5 lap in my last race and finished first at 21:07 (with a pit stop), I really dont know how to compete against the AI. I ran a fastest lap of 1:23.861 on hard fronts and medium rears. Most of my laps were in the 1:25's though. This race is brutally hard.
 
Considering Fraga just ran a 1:21.5 lap in my last race and finished first at 21:07 (with a pit stop), I really dont know how to compete against the AI. I ran a fastest lap of 1:23.861 on hard fronts and medium rears. Most of my laps were in the 1:25's though. This race is brutally hard.
Having not touched this race, or the SF car, for nearly two months, I just had two more goes to see if I could repeat my previous success. I raced an SF23 on hards, with the AI on normal. I finished P2 in the first race as I was a little rusty. I won the second race by half a second, having chased down the leader bit by bit for the final five laps (the leader raced hard but fair and it was an easy final lap once I had passed him, as I had control of the lead). The rain was short-lived and not too bad for both races, so I did not need to pit (nor did the other front-runners). I noted my lap times for the second race, which were generally in the 1:26’s, with my fastest lap being 1:25 something. This was the fastest lap of the race until Fraga pulled a 1:24 something whilst trying to chase me down near the end. So, even though you had RMs on your rears, you are still putting in times comparable or better than mine (not sure what RM rears are worth per lap), so you either need to switch to normal AI if you have it set to hard, or keep trying until the dice of the AI's laptimes tumble in your favour. I might try it again on hard AI to see just how badly I fail to win!
 
Having not touched this race, or the SF car, for nearly two months, I just had two more goes to see if I could repeat my previous success. I raced an SF23 on hards, with the AI on normal. I finished P2 in the first race as I was a little rusty. I won the second race by half a second, having chased down the leader bit by bit for the final five laps (the leader raced hard but fair and it was an easy final lap once I had passed him, as I had control of the lead). The rain was short-lived and not too bad for both races, so I did not need to pit (nor did the other front-runners). I noted my lap times for the second race, which were generally in the 1:26’s, with my fastest lap being 1:25 something. This was the fastest lap of the race until Fraga pulled a 1:24 something whilst trying to chase me down near the end. So, even though you had RMs on your rears, you are still putting in times comparable or better than mine (not sure what RM rears are worth per lap), so you either need to switch to normal AI if you have it set to hard, or keep trying until the dice of the AI's laptimes tumble in your favour. I might try it again on hard AI to see just how badly I fail to win!
I'm trying it with softs now and ran a low 1:22.1 lap. I was in first place after lap 6 but the rain came in as my tires were on the way out. I saw a lot of dark blue in the sky so I put on inters. 4 laps later, and despite dark blue sky's overhead the rain didn't come down very much and everyone on clapped out race tires still out broke, out turned and out accelerated me in the wet conditions. This race is 100% rigged. I've got over 200 miles put in to this race today. 200 or so yesterday. My best is 3rd place about 17 seconds behind the leader. So many races I have been in a good position only to spin out on lap 14 because my tires were gone. Yet Hisal can put in low 1:23 laps on his clapped out hard tires.

Edit: 367 miles today on just this one race. Fastest lap of 1:22.061. The AI is still 9 seconds ahead of me at lap 7. Other laps are 1:23's and 1:24's. I've restarted more times than I can count. I no longer will start a race with Lopez, Hizal, Gallo or Fraga on the top 3. If I can't run sub 1:20 on my out lap I need to start over. If I can't hit 1:23 or a very low 1:24 on lap 2 I need to start over. If I get a penalty in that fast left hander, I have to start over. There is literally no room for error in this race.

Edit 2: 600 miles on this race. Best result is 3rd being 1.5 seconds behind 1st. I had a great run going and was 2 seconds behind 1st on lap 13. Tires were looking great and my pace was good. On the long right hander the 2nd place AI decided to let off the gas right as I was approaching him. Slammed in to his ass end and spun me out. I had the race won and the AI pulled another middle finger out at me. That took me about 5 minutes of just sitting there contemplating life to even grab the wheel again.

But I'm done for tonight. This race isn't even fun. If the implementation of Sophy makes the rest of the game like this, I don't think I would play it. This truly is not fun to get penalized for avoiding slow traffic, get spun out by AI because I'm driving faster then them. Have a rigged grid so you have to continually go in and back out and back in and back out so you can get just the right grid to give even really good drivers a chance at winning. It's just not a fun game to play when the deck is stacked against you like this.
 
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@Tommy_D - I came to the same conclusion as you quite a while ago > https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...i-race-difficulty.418876/page-4#post-14051889 …but it is winnable when the weather and competition falls in your favour. If you want a better, more fair race, may I suggest the final Human Comedy mission at Lake Maggiore - it’s an hour long and you can’t afford to make a single mistake, but there is no weather to deal with, and the competition is very good without defying the laws of physics. In other words, you can win on merit more than blind luck.
 
@Tommy_D - I came to the same conclusion as you quite a while ago > https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...i-race-difficulty.418876/page-4#post-14051889 …but it is winnable when the weather and competition falls in your favour. If you want a better, more fair race, may I suggest the final Human Comedy mission at Lake Maggiore - it’s an hour long and you can’t afford to make a single mistake, but there is no weather to deal with, and the competition is very good without defying the laws of physics. In other words, you can win on merit more than blind luck.
Yeah, I've already beat all the missions, all the other races, golded every license test, etc. This Fuji race is last race I need to win and I'm not dropping the difficulty to normal since I've done everything else on hard.
 
Well, I just tried a couple of races in AI 'hard' mode and the best I could do was P.5, 9 seconds off the leader with no mistakes (the lead four were in a pack ahead of me). Racing in hard mode is, well, hard! As with the most difficult race in the game (the final Human Comedy mission at Lake Maggiore (IMHO)), I clearly need to work on my consistency because my optimum lap was 1:22 something (on hards), which was a good two seconds less than most of my unhindered laps. What I have noticed though, with the races I did yesterday and today, is that they all had light rain in roughly the same period in the race, and none of the races featured a physics-defying 'ringer' that finished miles ahead of everyone else. This is very different to a couple of months ago so I wonder if the update last week brought some 'stability' to this race's weather and competition format 🤔
 
I'm trying it with softs now and ran a low 1:22.1 lap. I was in first place after lap 6 but the rain came in as my tires were on the way out. I saw a lot of dark blue in the sky so I put on inters. 4 laps later, and despite dark blue sky's overhead the rain didn't come down very much and everyone on clapped out race tires still out broke, out turned and out accelerated me in the wet conditions. This race is 100% rigged.
P.1 - I've just won the race by 5 seconds, in Hard mode, in an SF23 with worn oil (I'd forgotten to change the oil for ages), with two bouts of light rain to deal with. The thing I did differently this morning was to use praiano63’s tune on RS tires ...as I had previously won in normal AI mode in stock trim, I didn't previously bother with a special tune. But it helped this time. It took me three attempts: one to get used to the new breaking points; the second to lose P1 on lap 13 because I didn't expect the tyres to go off quite so quickly (I then recovered from P.6 to P.2 over the line); and the third to finally get the win. I can't prove that it was in hard mode so you'll have to trust me.

I took the lead on lap 5 (as previously) but this time I stayed out for 8 laps as it was easier to cope with worn tyres racing clear of the pack. I think a big part of the win was in taking the lead on or around turn One, which then gave me most of the lap to build up space behind me, which meant that P.2 could not draft me down the straight, which broke the tow and allowed me to build up a better lead. I came out the pits in P.10 but quickly clawed my way back up to the lead on lap 13 (as previously). Once I had broken the tow again, I slowed down a bit so as not to spin-out on worn tyres again. The reason I'm telling you all this, @Tommy_D, is because my best lap of 1:22.696 was half-a-second slower than your best lap, so you are a quicker driver than me. But as I eluded to before, and just as with kart racing IRL, consistency is the trick - most of my laps were in the 1:22s or 1:23s, and I stayed out of trouble when passing traffic.

As for the consistent weather and lack of overly-aggressive, physics-defying 'ringers', I am now even more convinced that last week's update brought some stability to this race's weather and AI performance. I think this race was well-broken before, but now it seems like a normal GT7 'hard but fair' race, albeit very hard in 'hard' mode 🤪

Edit: I forgot to say: as with all my SF races at this circuit, I used the overtake facility at the start of the straight until the first gantry, which you can do for almost every lap. As well as giving you extra speed to carry all the way down the straight, it helps break the tow of cars close behind you. This, I think, was crucial in being able to escape P.2 once the lead was taken (in each race segment).

Second Edit: I take it all back - the game still has 'ringers', just as you said, @Tommy_D. I just did this race another three times. The first it rained heavily and I spun out on my soft tyres. The second and third time it only rained lightly. In each race I could not take the lead before my pitstop, and although I finished P.2 ten seconds clear of the rest of the pack, I was 14 seconds behind the leader who posted a 1:20.1 fastest lap. These times were identical to within a second for both races. My laptimes were similar to my win this morning, but there's no way I can find another second a lap! I don't think the leader even pitted, so I guess those sub 1:21 laptimes were on RH tyres! I'm rather pleased that I won the race this morning.
 

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Well, I finally won... but I feel cheated out of my victory. I was setting a great pace and got in to first on lap 5. Put about 6.5 seconds between me and 2nd place when I pitted at the end of lap 8. Came out of the pits in 10th and was running 1:23's for a couple laps, then the rain came and everyone's pace slowed down. I took 1st again in the middle of lap 13 and never looked back. Won with a 21:26.493 and a fastest lap of 1:22.370.

I really wanted a 100% dry race to see if I could win this one legitimately. Last night I ran a 21:12 in the dry and got 2nd place. Lost by 9 seconds to Fraga. I wanted to run somewhere in the 21:05 range and felt like my pace was there during the first half of the race. When the rain came my lap times were 1:27, 1:29, and 1:30, then slowly got down to a 1:26 while the track was drying.

I any case, I can finally say I won on hard difficulty. I used the SF19 Toyota. I just couldn't get along with the SF23 cars. I felt like the SF19 could out brake and had better turn in response than the SF23 version. Kept missing apexes and the sluggish turn in really was a big turn off in the more technical part of the track at the bottom of the hill. SF19 just worked better for me.
 
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Well, I finally won... but I feel cheated out of my victory.
Well done - I think you've just got to 'take it'; sounds like you earned it. I like this race in Hard mode for the very reason that it is so infuriating. It is a massive challenge during which you can't make any mistakes, but the conditions surrounding your race entry are much more random (and thus realistic) than any other race in the game, IMHO. For example, I tried three more times to get a second win on Monday without success (as per my post above). This morning, however, having got into P.2 on lap 5, I hunted down the leader, getting to within a second by my pitstop on lap 8. I thought I was on for the win but he continued, so I assumed he was on RHs again and that I would have no chance, again. And yet with only light rain, he pitted on lap 12 and left me to take it easy for a comfortable win, without a single lap quicker than 1:23.5! With this race, you've just got to keep trying and take the wins with a big smile when you get them ...don't beat yourself up!
 

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Today all stars werealigned and I finished that race on hard in the sf19 (max downforce, strong turbo lag) in p1 with a gap of 1.8 seconds.

At the end of lap 7 it started to rain and the weather map "froze" increasing the wetness of the track to 5/6 of the bar, I swapped from soft tires to intermediates and overtook everyone. After lap 8 all I had to do was defend my position and swap back to soft tires in lap 11 when the track started to dry up.

This win feels unsatisfying and like "luck" instead of racecraft/skills...
 
Today all stars werealigned and I finished that race on hard in the sf19 (max downforce, strong turbo lag) in p1 with a gap of 1.8 seconds.

At the end of lap 7 it started to rain and the weather map "froze" increasing the wetness of the track to 5/6 of the bar, I swapped from soft tires to intermediates and overtook everyone. After lap 8 all I had to do was defend my position and swap back to soft tires in lap 11 when the track started to dry up.

This win feels unsatisfying and like "luck" instead of racecraft/skills...
Yeah, that's how I felt when I won. So many hard fought dry races slowly clawing my way to the top, then one random wet race where you don't even have to run your best to win. Feels like I cheated.
 
So many hard fought dry races slowly clawing my way to the top, then one random wet race where you don't even have to run your best to win.
I don't get how the AI works in this game anymore...
After a year or so away from the game I finally got the strength to come back (especially now that there's a lot more ways of getting money for stuff) and I unlocked this race.
Yyyyyeah... Whatever I tried, I couldn't get closer than 20 seconds from the leader. Hards without pitting, mediums without pitting, softs with and without pitting - didn't matter. And if it rained, it was usually not enough to change from slicks. It's true, I suck at Fuji (hate the 3rd sector) but I did get all golds in track experience, so at least I know how to do it correctly. But whatever I tried, the AI kept pulling away from me and even with minimal downforce I felt like I had some 200 hp less than them, that's how much faster they were on the straghts.
But then I tried praiano's setup aand... WTF? I didn't feel like I was driving any better, the car didn't feel significantly better either (just longer 1-3rd gears meant less wheelspin in sector 3), but all of a sudden I was doing laptimes at least a second faster than anyone else, caught up to the leader and passed him with 5-6 laps to go and won with a ~10 second lead... What? And it didn't even rain, it was dry the whole time.
It's like the AI's behaviour in this game was generated at random and at that instance I happened to get one where they drive like it's on Easy difficulty...
 
I don't get how the AI works in this game anymore...
After a year or so away from the game I finally got the strength to come back (especially now that there's a lot more ways of getting money for stuff) and I unlocked this race.
Yyyyyeah... Whatever I tried, I couldn't get closer than 20 seconds from the leader. Hards without pitting, mediums without pitting, softs with and without pitting - didn't matter. And if it rained, it was usually not enough to change from slicks. It's true, I suck at Fuji (hate the 3rd sector) but I did get all golds in track experience, so at least I know how to do it correctly. But whatever I tried, the AI kept pulling away from me and even with minimal downforce I felt like I had some 200 hp less than them, that's how much faster they were on the straghts.
But then I tried praiano's setup aand... WTF? I didn't feel like I was driving any better, the car didn't feel significantly better either (just longer 1-3rd gears meant less wheelspin in sector 3), but all of a sudden I was doing laptimes at least a second faster than anyone else, caught up to the leader and passed him with 5-6 laps to go and won with a ~10 second lead... What? And it didn't even rain, it was dry the whole time.
It's like the AI's behaviour in this game was generated at random and at that instance I happened to get one where they drive like it's on Easy difficulty...

Have you ever watched an F1 race? Setup is vital.
 
I don't get how the AI works in this game anymore ... It's like the AI's behaviour in this game was generated at random and at that instance I happened to get one where they drive like it's on Easy difficulty...
If you read the last page or two of this topic thread, you’ll see that the central theme has been to discus how inconsistent the AI is in this particular race. Sometimes this makes for a more realistic and challenging race (in Hard mode), whilst other times it makes for a frustratingly impossible race (in any mode).

As for the circuit experience, I’ve never done one but I seem to recall that they use a set car with a set tune. If this is correct then you cannot possibly learn the best lines and braking points for every tune of every car from one simple 'experience', for even with the same car each time, altering the tyres or suspension or the engine power or any other factor will change the optimum lines and breaking points etc.

As for being amazed by how different an SF car can be around any particular track with altered settings - even if those alterations are just to the gearing ratios - you clearly have a lot to learn. I mean no disrespect by that, but I do mean that you clearly don’t know what you don’t know, yet. But car tuning is a very, very complex subject. I’m an engineer and ex-racing driver with decades of motorsport experience, but when it comes to tuning cars in GT7, most of the time I feel like I’m just blindly tinkering with things that I barely understand.
 
Have you ever watched an F1 race? Setup is vital.
Except when you do pretty much the same laptimes, no matter the setup, but in one race the AI pulls away and you finish 10th, ~30 seconds behind the leader while in the next instance of the same race you catch up to everyone and finish some 20 seconds in front of the 2nd car.

As for being amazed by how different an SF car can be around any particular track with altered settings - even if those alterations are just to the gearing ratios - you clearly have a lot to learn
Dude, I'm not talking about changing a car setup and suddenly being a lot faster. I'm talking about the AI being frustratingly quick in one race while after a restart it gets surprisingly slow all of a sudden.
 
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Dude, I'm not talking about changing a car setup and suddenly being a lot faster. I'm talking about the AI being frustratingly quick in one race while after a restart it gets surprisingly slow all of a sudden.
As I said: "If you read the last page or two of this topic thread, you’ll see that the central theme has been to discus how inconsistent the AI is in this particular race."
 
This is why the exit speed from the last bend before a long straight is vitally important to one’s lap times
Thanks for the good reminder. This is actually well documented in many racing strategies I've read over the year. Your top speed is dictated by your exit speed. Exactly how I decided on the apex point if I want to overtake over the corner or the long straight after.
 
Whose doing this now on hard?
I did this on hard. I made a one page before.

Here's a link.


On the same page, I made another post about a win with a different tune.

Might help if you're having difficulty.
 
I did this on hard. I made a one page before.

Here's a link.


On the same page, I made another post about a win with a different tune.

Might help if you're having difficulty.
Cool...thanks chief. I'm enjoying the challenge of it, just wanted to have some dialogue about it. Instead of the bickering.


I'll check out your post.

Now that there's been an update to the physics model curious how it plays now.

Edit: no stops on soft would never work with my style. I was pulling 123s and 124s on mediums and fraga would catch me after his pit
I did this on hard. I made a one page before.

Here's a link.


On the same page, I made another post about a win with a different tune.

Might help if you're having difficulty.
 
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